4thought.tv

It is sad to note that in Britain today Jews are more and more being reminded of the 1930s.

Anyone who heard the West Ham so-called fans hissing at Tottenham supporters and chanting that Adolf Hitler was coming for them can be under no illusion about whether anti-Semitism exists in Britain today.

If you had ventured to Kensington High Street a few weeks ago when the Palestinian Solidarity Campaign were demonstrating in support of Hamas terrorists firing rockets indiscriminately even at such targets as the holy city of Jerusalem, you would have heard language which I feel unable to reproduce here as it was so vile.

If you consult the Community Security Trust who liaise with the police across the country, you will see that the number of anti-Semitic incidents is far higher than when they began their work.

Many of us are grateful to Richard Millett for exposing some of the vile anti-Semitic language used by the likes of Baroness Tongue which led even the normally supine Nick Clegg to remove the Lib Dem whip from her permanently.

Keep up the goood work!

israel does not equal judaism, in fact most israelis today are not semitic.... they're originally from europe... Israel represents ongoing colonization, land confiscation, ethnic cleansing and apartheid, zionism is a supremacist ideology that believes jews are chosen people, all these values are very non-jewish values... criticizing israel is not anti-semitic.... the terrorist actions of the state of israel and israelis may have given an excuse to people who are already anti-semitic to be more anti-semitic, but keep in mind that israel is constantly criticized by jews, because its a murderous stat..... and when it was established, it was established on stolen lands... it has nothing to do with judaism when israel is criticized... it has to do with justice!!

I am sure that there is a degree of ant-Semitism in the UK and that some Jews experience unwarranted and unacceptable levels of abuse. It is also clear that the Jewish people have suffered unthinkable persecution and genocide, especially in the last century, and are understandably extremely concerned about their continued existence. However, I also think that the Jewish cause is not helped by Israel's appalling treatment of the Palestinians over the last 50 or so years. They are always ready to highlight their own victim status but show no empathy or understanding for a people who, for all that time, they have forced to live in a refugee camp cum prison, removed their dignity (both collective and individual), stifled their economy, eroded their land and in the most recent developments on settlement building are now effectively destroying any hope of the Palestinians achieving a viable autonomous homeland of their own. One can only deduce that self-preservation has mutated into cynical oppression. Israelis are very ready to condemn acts of aggression by some Palestinian elements (which deserve condemnation but in the circumstances and after all this time are hardly surprising) but conveniently forget that their state was born partly out of their own ‘terrorism’. It might not stop some of the extremist racism towards them, but if Jewish people in the UK want the support and a more favourable reception from the mostly non-violent, fair-thinking citizens who abhor Israel’s behaviour then they could start by recognising the Palestinians’ suffering and rights to self-determination by lobbying the Israeli government to give the Palestinians the equitable treatment they expect for themselves from the rest of the world.

These are my views on all seven contributions:

http://richardmillett.wordpress.com/2012/12/04/my-appearance-on-4thoughttv-are-jews-still-persecuted-in-britain-today/

Thank you for the opportunity to appear.
Best wishes,
Richard Millett

I think richard millett pointing out how the palestine solidarity campaign is often used as a vehicle for anti-semitism which is perfectly true.
he's not saying that the organisation itself is wrong.

Why didn't Channel 4 ask a professional body to comment on the question e.g. the Community Security Trust, which wrot the latest UK wide report on antisemitism, or a representative, such as Mark Gardner?

Stephen Sizer? The apologist for the antisemitic hate preacher, Raed Salah?

Er, obscenity?

No.

Objecting to people supporting Israel's genocide of the Palestinian people is not an attack on Judaism

I think Richard Millet confused anti-zionism with anti-semitism.

The issue is not about the Jewish faith, but the the state of Israel. British people do not support an aggresive state which ignore international law. I dont believe we have a problem with Jewish people.

Richard is sorely mistaken here, confusing anti-Israelli viewpoints with anti-semmetism. The two are not the same. I have no problem with religions putting across moderate views. However, I do have a problem when one nation suppresses, controls and holds captive another.

I felt that the film confused anti-semitism and anti-Zionism. They are not the same thing. I support the continued existence of the state of Israel; but it's impossible to support the agenda of those advocating a 'Greater Israel', and trying to destroy any possibility of a two-state solution by continuing to separate Palestinian 'enclaves' with new settler developments.

I struggle with this, because you don't say what your modest pro-Israeli defence actually is, and you conflate being Jewish with being pro-Israeli.

I am genuinely very sorry that you have been assaulted and abused, but if we're ever to make any progress we have to be clear what it is we're talking about.

If the question is whether the Jews still face prosecution in Britain today you evidently do not know either what prosecution means or the extent of barbarity and brutality that the Nazis unleashed on the Jewish people in the 30s and 40s.

Jim666- that's the thing, that you clearly do not know what is going on there. Why dont you/other Britians give a chance to listen to people like Richard that might show you the other (true) side of the story. Sadly, people in Britian do not know and do not want to listen.

Just as I would not go to a BNP rally and espouse multiculturalism and expect to leave unharmed you should not got to anti Israeli meetings and expect the same.
The fact is extremists of all kinds cannot be reasoned with, this is sad but to say that the UK is anti Israeli because if it is not only wrong it's will-full misunderstanding.
I personally find they way that Israel has mutated into an abhorrent state that utilises torture and murder rather disgusting however I would never harm you for for suggesting arguing otherwise.

I have just returned from visiting the refugee camps in the west bank, where displaced Palestinians live half lives with their every movement controlled through military checkpoints. Palestinians are banned from Israeli roads, and a division based on ethnic groups amounts to nothing less than apartied. I value both Jews and Palestinians, but don't endorse a system that by definition excludes one.

Yes, there is certainly a bias against Israel and the Jewish people, although it has not been quite as bad recently as it was previously. And, because of the biased reporting by the media over the last years, people are ill informed, and it has become difficult to talk about it without people speaking heatedly against Israel and being quite unwilling to listen to any other point of view. I for one am terribly sorry about it and wonder what can be done?

I am not a muslim or jew. I feel what the state of Israel is doing to the Palestinian population is unjust. This man is going to places where people are highly emotional about the plight of palestinians and upsetting them by supporting a state that is imprisoning a large population in the West-bank and other parts of palestine is wrong.

I come from a country which is 70 percent Muslim. Everyday when I talk to the Muslim people of any country they are always telling me how they wished to clear Israel of the map. How they wish they could do this and that. I think that the people you see protesting in London most of them are Muslim. Whom their parents have immigrated to Britain. I was at college when the tutor was helping the students to spread hate towards the Jewish people. They were emailing posters to each other expressing what they would do to Israel and Jewish people. In Britain its not only the Jewish people who are discriminated every second race is.

Support for Israel has diminished amongst none Jews…I believe the secular Zionist movement is working hard to deliberately create a climate in the UK that converges any criticism of the state of Israel and its actions as being antisemitic. A job well done and already completed in the USA.

We live in Wimbone Dorset. In 2010 my daughter was 'jew slapped' in school. She was standing in a corridor and a boy ran past her slapped her face & said that was a 'jew slap' the boy ran back again and slapped her face again! She is blonde and blue eyed and not in anyway typically jewish looking. Prior to this kids had drawn swasticas on their hands & shown them to her in class. One kid told her hitler was right and she should have been put in the gas chambers too! Sweet behaviour by young teenagers. We moved out of Dorset which as far as I am concerned is a backwater of inbred racists. I was bullied for being a jew when I was a kid almost 50 years ago Its unbelievable to me that ignorance and stupidity has not changed.

Ridiculous. Millett's entire piece was not about antisemitism at all - it was just a rant in support of Israel. As Stephen Sizer says in his own contribution to this week's theme, we need to separate faith from politics; but Millett does nothing of the sort. Israel in its present form is not only terrible for the Palestinians, it is bad for Jewish people all over the world. Why aren't representatives from Jews for Justice for Palestinians, Jews for Boycotting Israeli Goods, the Jewish Socialist Group, Jewish Voice for Peace (to name just a few alternative Jewish organisations) given a chance to express their views on this topic? Let's have some proper balance please, Channel 4!

That's an easy problem to solve, vacate the occupied Palastinian land and start showing some humanity to the Palastinian people!You won't rceive any sympathy from me until then. I also boycott all Israeli products for the same reason.

The most ridiculous journalistic piece I have come across. Grievances against Israel are legitimate - after all, it was created by the British to aid in colonial projects, not to mention the crimes they commit against the palestinians. I find it incredible that certain individuals have the audacity to equate criticism of israel with antisemitism. I, as a Muslim, have no problem with Jews -they are given the title 'people of the book' within Quranic scripture but we will remain vocal against the racist state that is a cancer in the heart of the Middle East.

Jews are under attack on a daily basis directly and indirectly through the media and the public at large. Open your eyes to what is happening. It is a major mistake to think that tomorrow the media will focus its attention away from its goal which is the destruction of our Jewish nation. It is our responsibility to remain observant to what is happening within our community. The strength of Israel lies in the mind and hands of every Jew.

As usual, Israel's supporters cry anti-Semitism and persecution the moment people show their disapproval or criticism of Israel. Anti-Semitism is abhorrent and should be condemned, just like any other racism. I have good Jewish friends and I know many Jews who feel outraged with Israel. Yet, their opinions are negated and they are accused of being 'self-hating' Jews. These humanitarian Jews get abused, bullied and ostracised by the rest of the Jewish community. This is the ugly side of how extreme Zionists treat others who do not subscribe to their point of view. If Richard Millet feels persecuted, then perhaps he should spend a week in Gaza when being attacked by Israeli Apache helicopters and then perhaps he'll understand what persecution really is. Don't forget, Muslims nationwide were also attacked after 9/11. People react to wrong-doing and, as much as I am against it, I am not surprised by it. If you defend the indefensible, then don't expect a pat on the back.

I love Finkelstien and Spinoza hate Netanyahu, Gideon Levy below is a very brave Israeli I respect...
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/is-gideon-levy-the-most-hated-man-in-israel-or-just-the-most-heroic-2087909.html

I seriously object to your contributor equating anti-zionism with anti-semitism. Many Jewish organisations in the past including the Jewish Bunds in Russia and Poland were anti-zionist. Hasidic Jews are anti-zionist. i have many Jewish friends who believe that building an exclusively jewish state is a disaster, not just for Palestinians but for jewish people. I have fought anti-semitism most of my life but I oppose the ethnic cleasing of palestinians from their homes. It is disgraceful trick used by Zionists to attempt to accuse those who oppose Israel of being racist.

I had a similar experience when I asked some students on campus why they were claiming that Ariel Sharon was a war crimnal. They had a stand outside the library and were protesting against him. I put forward a counter position and a male student to my left suddenly said "You're a Jew, you pig!" and he spat at me and hurried away. The spit landed on my shoe. I was shaken. This was in 2003. More recently, when I have supported Israel I have been accused of supporting apartheid and have been called a Nazi. This is equally distressing. While we are not persecuted by the government, we are abused by our fellow citizens just for putting forward a pro-Israel counter view.

The same Richard Millet used to routinely refer to the protests against Covent Garden's Ahava shop, which sold products from an illegal Israeli settlement, as Nazi boycotts. At the same time the Zionist counter demonstrations were on several occasions supported by the English Defence League - a situation so bizarre you couldn't make it up. The not so reasonable face of Zionism whose blog is regularly used to smear supporters of human rights as anti-Semites - hence my unusual reluctance to use my real name.

I write as a son of Irish Catholic immigrants. I am appalled at the way the Catholic Churchs and later, Protestant Churches, encouraged hatred of Jews over centuries in such a way that the Holocaust became achievable in a civilsied European country. It seems to me that the middle eastern world want to carry on the trend and many in Britain are only too happy to ignore that reality. The fact is an Arab has more rights in Israel than he/ she does in any Arab country.
It would be really interesting to see how British people would feel if Ireland, France, Belguium, Holland, Germany, Sweden, Norway, and Greenland invading from time to time, lobbing over missiles, sending suicide bombers onto our buses to delibeately target civilians and constantly calling for the UK to 'wiped off the face of the earth'.......Oh and add in to the mix Greenland being tantalsingly close to developing a nuclear weapon.....This is the situation Israel finds itself in.

People are entitled to criticise any regime they wish, but calling for the annihilation of an entire state is outrageous.

I detest all violence but I detest in particular how one religious group in particualar has been the world's whipping boy for centuries.

I find the contribution tht Jewish people have made to culture and scientifc advances to be outstanding.How ironic. Maybe people are simply envious. Keep raising awareness about anti- semitism. I do with my fellow leftie friends.

The answer to that question is "no". A completely different question would be "do people in England give unquestioning support to israel?" and I hope the answer is a resounding "no!" I do wish the blind supporters of Israel, who equate anti-Zionism with anti-Semitism ,could see how their attitude would encourage anti-Semitism if it wasn't for the many many Jews such as Jewish Voice for Peace who show there is another side to Jews.

These rejections you call 'persecutions' have nothing to do with your religion and being a jew. They are directly linked with Israel foreign policies and military decisions. Israel through its actions demonstrates that it is not a tolerant and peaceful country. On top of that, much of the population of Israel and many jewish people seem to be agreeing with this hostility and agressive behaviour. It's Israel's actions that create an environment in which antisemitism is encouraged. Always defending Israel regardless of whether it is right or wrong is ultimately helping neither Israel nor the jewish people who live in countries around the world.

Wow it was surprising to hear what was said. Expression of ones views is a persons basic right and to know that he has been assaulted over it in the UK is just Diabolical! No matter what people may think about Isreal or what it is that Ireal is believed to stand for, you have no right to hurt, judge and discriminate a person because of their origin most certainly not in the UK!

It is a standard Zionist tactic to equate criticism of Israel with anti-semitism. Israel is an apartheid state which daily carries out crimes against the Palestinians. If antisemitism is on the increase it is because of Israel's actions. Zionism is the real enemy of the Jews and puts Jews everywhere in jeopardy of antisemitic attacks.

People on here who talk of zionism usually go on to make some reference to Israel encouraging anti- semistism. I thought the point was meant to be that it can be fair to criticise a regime without beign anti -semetic and yet posters invariably bring in this 'encouraging anti-semistism' element to the argument. It's sinister. It the old, 'blame it on the Jews' mantra.......

I think that the key to this persons presentation was made in his first sentence. He can go/emigrate/visit Israel at will. Millions of Palestinians cannot even visit property that has been in their family for generations without being threatened/bullied/assaulted or worse. Mr Millet is either totally unschooled in British history and the current situation in Israel or he does not give a damn. He was not assaulted for being Jewish. He was assaulted for defending THE most racist state ever to exist. He should not have been assaulted.....but he is defending a racist expansionist settler state that will not declare its borders, that imprisons the owners of a land that it is colonising. Steals water, land, housing, trees...I could go on all night...but go on Mr Millet...go there and find out for yourself. You may even get a nice flat in a settlement...subsidised by Mr Obama of course.

Enough already! The argument that anyone that criticises Israel and Zionism is anti Semitic no longer washes. I have many Jewish and Israeli friends who agree with this view which is also supported by such groups as Jewish Voice for Peace http://jewishvoiceforpeace.org J Big http://jews4big.wordpress.com/tag/j-big and Boycott from Within http://boycottisrael.info/content/palestinians-jews-citizens-israel-join-palestinian-united-call-bds-against-israel . Israel’s recent actions, such as plans to increase the construction of illegal colonies and withholding tax revenues, to punish the Palestinians for daring to strive for self determination will only further dilute this tiered argument.

Richard Millet your integration of Anti-semitism with anti-Zionism is extremely misleading here is a definition of the two:

Anti-semitism: It is a hatred and fear of the Jewish people and the Jewish religion.

Anti-Zionism: It is a dislike of Zionism which is a nationalistic ideology.

THEY ARE NOT THE SAME

I'm a Anti-Zionist and I'm not ashamed of it but I am not a Anti-Semite I don't hate Jews, I hate how Israel is treating the Palestinians and its Arab citizens like 2nd class citizens (not to mention its invasion of the Sinai peninsula) and the western world is supporting them and anyone who questions Israel is deemed an Anti-Semite which is an uneducated response to a delicate situation. To put my two cents about this week's subject I do believe there are some people who have racist views on Jews and may act out on them but in general I think Britain is tolerant of Jews.

I, in my many years of debating this issue, have never heard anyone called an anti-Semite for criticising Israeli policy. I have lots of Zionist friends and many of them were royally annoyed at Netanyahu's decision to build 3,000 new settlement homes to punish the Palestinian statehood bid.

The only way a Jew would ever call someone anti-Semitic is if that person said something that offended that Jew as a Jew. Using old anti-Semitic imagery - the blood libel, the myth of Jewish world control - to attack Israel is not just criticism of Israel, it's very often anti-Semitism.

If people are really blind to the continuing trends in this country then so be it. But don't accuse Jews of conspiring with one another to use anti-Semitism as a means to 'silence' people.

Hamas thugs fire rockets at Israel from houses, schools & hospitals. Israel fires back to destroy the rocket launcher. Very regrettably innocent people get killed.
As Golda Meir once said, “we can forgive them for killing our children but we can never forgive them for forcing us to kill theirs.”

Dear Stephen Sizer,
Iwould like to know where you stand on suffering caused to the Palestinians (Arab-Israelis) by their own democratically-elected Government of Hamas. It persecutes Palestinians who have given their lives to Christ. Israel has still been supplying food as well as other necessities since it (unfortunately) pulled out of the Gaza strip seven years ago. All in the cause of peace. Where do you stand on the suffering caused by Hamas rockets fired at Israeli civilians (of which I can bear a witness) living in Ashdod, Sderot and the other towns close to Gaza?

Sad that this piece of propaganda was broadcast in what I understood to be a non-political programme. Equating Israel to the Jews is an important ploy for pro-Israelis, whether subtly, as in this piece, or branding those who criticise Israel anti-Semitic. Morally sound outrage at a state that refuses to live within the norms of international law does not make me anti-Jewish. Further I think this is a cheap trick that shows a lack of respect for the real and terrible suffering of the Jewish people throughout the centuries.

Let's take it that for a minute that we all know what *anti*semitism is ('hatred of Jews just because they are Jews') and go on from there to ask an even more interesting question - does its polar opposite, *philo*semitism ('like of Jews just because they are Jews') exist? Please distinguish this from tolerance or indifference - the answer would be very interesting!

The vast majority of posts here complete miss the point. Broadly speaking we have two sides:
1 - Equating anti-semitism with anti-zionism
2 - Accusing 1 of the above

Why can both sides not discuss these two different issues separately?

In a vain attempt to understand what everyone actually thinks, here is my opinion:

Anti-semitism exists. Much like racism, sexism and other forms of discrimination. Anti-semitic violence exists, much like a lot of other forms of violence. Is anti-semitism more of a problem or more violent than other forms of discrimination? Not only do I not know the answer to this, but I doubt anyone can realistically answer this question. Seeking an object answer to such a subjective question is an idiot's prerogative.

Anti-zionism exists. Anti-zionistic violence exists. Is anti-zionism more of a problem or more violent than other forms of discrimination? My experience would suggest that yes, it is. I have no objective proof nor do I understand the subtleties of the very complex and drawn out process in the middle east however I have some experience of interacting with British people (including Jews and Muslims) of all classes and that is what I feel I need to make a conclusion.

Finally, it seems there is perhaps a third side in all this which needs to be considered. Those who are not prepared to even consider the hypthesis that anti-zionism could be a problem. I suppose what I am asking is, why does everyone seem to agree that anti-semitism is undesireable, yet have such a certainty that zionism is pure evil? The existence of two separate concepts to represent one interrelated and complex phenomenon allows both sides to deflect conversation and hide behind terms. Its like watching children play musical chairs.

Notice that there is a much deeper but related question which I have tried very hard to steer clear of. This is because the scope of this question is way too much for me (and obviously for anyone else leaving comments). This question is: Is Zionism is good or bad? I'm sure there are two clear camps when it comes to the answer. I think we all can usually guess which camp anyone falls into but we all seem to be terrified of discussing this.

FYI, I am a non-Jew, non-Muslim. I am an atheist with no clear familial or personal links to either religion.

Golly. Here's a reality check.

A)Not all Zionists are Jewish in fact there's probably more Christian Zionists than Jewish Zionists.

B)Not all Jews are Zionists.

c)Not all Israelis are Jewish.

To claim Anti Zionism is Anti Semitism is pure bunkum.

I thought thhis film a oiwerful indictment how sensible and rational people can be whipped up into a hate mob.

Jews are an easy target, their demands to maintain a State of Israel, is a sad refelction on the inability of non-Jews to behave in such a way that almost 30% of the Jews of the world prefer to live in this harsh and dangerous region, unwilling to give up an inch of it. If Jews were granted half the courtesy extended to other ethnic minorities on our shores, the ferocity of hanging onto this land that history confirms is where they emanate from could change dramatically..

How many Jews live in Arab countries? Very few! Why? Because they were expelled when Israel was formed in 1948.
How many Arabs live in Israel? Over 1 million, 20% of the population & they have full democratic rights, they can vote, serve in the army if they wish, etc
In 1967 before the 6 day war, when East Jerusalem was held by Palestinians, Jews were not allowed to pray at the Western Wall. Now that East Jerusalem is held by Israel, Palestinians are able to pray at the Temple Mount.
Who's racist & who is not?
You can make your own minds up...

Next points:

1) Gaza has received $billions in aid. How much has been spent on educating their people, healthcare, roads, railways, schools, hospitals and how much has been spent on rockets?

2) Israel, in its early days, also received $billions in aid. It is now one of the most advanced economies in the world in terms of technology, agriculture, healthcare and engineering.

3) there is only 1 country which Jews can call their home in the world, Israel. How many Arab countries are there? Incidentally, the homeland for Palestinians was actually meant to be Jordan.

How many people making negative comments above have been to Israel? I have many times. It is an awe inspiring country. Incidentally, most computers, iPads, iPhones and servers have parts in them made in Israel.

When the rockets stop, Israel will make peace, like it has with Egypt and Jordan.

If you view the map of Palestine over time - you see the shrinkage of Palestine owned land - being against oppression of a people is not anti-semtism. Israel is out of order - it should know better having suffered under the Nazi's.
There is good reason why you have 227 thumbs down - however - I agree about your right to be heard- so - it is your video not mine - you have been given air by ch4.

Anti-semetism isn't the same as anti-Israel. Gaza is the victim of a massacre from Israel. I don't care, if you're jewish, christian, or anything else, but I care, if you're killing people. And that is why people are anti-Israel, not because they hate Jews.