4thought.tv

The Christian faith is not “birthed in Judaism”. The stinging parable of the vineyard is what Christ had to say about Jewish creationism. He told the Sadducee administration the vineyard or Jerusalem would be given to another, for your information the Pharisees.
But the land belongs to the King of the Jews and not the Jews themselves and neither does it belong to the Arabs. Jesus staked his claim in blood and since he was Yahweh some might say he had a superior claim to that of the Jewish tenants of his time. You are obliged to recognize that claim and I don’t mean lip service.

Zionism is scarcely more destructive than any other nationalism or national liberation movement. What about the exclucivism, expulsionism and racism that historically characterised Palestinian and other Arab Muslim and Christian nationalism against Jews?

Stephen Sizer's allegedly Christian ethic enjoys harping on the crimes, sins and misdemeanours of Palestinian and Israeli Jews, but is decidedly less rigorous when applied to Palestinian and other Arab Muslims and Christians.

While he will harp on the expulsionism of Palestinian and Israeli Jews, he is pretty much silent on that of Palestinian and other Arab Muslim, Islamist and Christian nationalists.

Asides dealing in the occasional paleo- or classical antisemitism (e.g. that Obama delayed to intervene in Libya through revering Gaddafi's alleged 'Jewish blood'), he has also acted as apologist for an antisemitic hate preacher such as Raed Salah.

Asking his views on antisemitism in Britain, instead of CST, when he himself is arguably part of the problem, is obscene.

I know i would feel a great deal safer attending my Cathoilic Church in Israel than i would in any other nation surrounding it. What about the rights of Christians to worship the God of their choosing in those other nations? What arent Christians in the UK up in arms about how Christians are persecuted and murdered in such countries?

Stephen, you are not being accused of anti-Semitism because you criticise Israel. You are being accused of anti-Semitism because of your flirtation with Holocaust deniers, your employment of anti-Semitic imagery in your denunciations of Zionism, your views on the very existence of the Israeli state.

Please do not accuse Jews of 'using' anti-Semitism to try and shut you up.

I have known Stephen for many years. He knows he is " a sinner saved by grace" and not without error, but I am quite sure he really does stand for justice and I am also sure he is not anti-Semitic.

The State of Israel, just as any other state should be held to account for its policies, strategy and actions, and the actions of its representatives and armed forces. Stephen is a critic of the Stae of Israel. The current assymetry in the relationship and power balance between Israel and Palestine means that Israel takes more criticism, currently, than others. That is politics not anti-Semitism it is a form of caring for both sides not discrimination aganist one side only as evidenced, I think, by those people of Jewish faith or background who have supported him.

Stephen is active in trying to address Christian Zionism - not least in the States - and this is a very legitimate concern for a Christian minister. He challenges nonsensical Christian interpretations of the Bible in this specific context and has also gone against the flow to challenge other popular but incorrect Christian views and movements. He challenges Christians who blindly support the secular State of Israel and yet show no concern about the Palestinian Church. He extends his own concern to Jews and Muslims and to fostering an understanding of peace with justice that again is entirely appropriate for a Christian minister.

Personally I still hope for peace and justice, for Jew and Christian and Muslim and humanist. Some how in a world filling up with human beings we have to find a way to live together justly without resorting to tribalism on any grounds, whether in the middle east, on religious grounds, or in taking cheap shots at good people through social media. Shalom, Salaam, Peace etc.

You acknowledged it, barely, but spent far too little time addressing the actual question: Are Jews still persecuted in Britain today?
This got incredibly short shrift because you have your own complaint or charge against Zionists.
That has some truth in it, but by making it your emphasis you appear far more simply to have an axe to grind, with little understanding of both (or the many more ) sides, and their history, and their pain.

I say to Christians who criticize Stephen Sizer, heed Matthew 7:3 when you turn to blind eye to the endless suffering of all Palestinians, be they Christian, Jewish or Muslims.

The speaker addresses the subject only 75 seconds into a piece that is 107 seconds long, having delivered himself of a diatribe that is not relevant to the matter in hand. The question is does it exist today and so affect people in this country - this is not the same thing as implying that it exists (or affects) people here as a retaliation for alleged evildoings by their co-religionists or members of the same ethnic group elsewhere. (Think about it.) A classic subject/motive shift of the '...but you can see what I'm getting at, can't you?' kind, and once you expose this and the professed pure-mindeness of the speaker, the game's up - the more he spoke of his honour, the faster we counted the spoons, as Mark Twain put it.

Perhaps we should note Norman Finkelstein's comments on the subject:
There are a large number of claims circulating about rampant anti-Semitism on college campuses. When you actually go through the records, talk to the schools, speak to the deans and so forth, all of these claims turn out to be fraudulent. There’s just no record of this so-called rampant anti-Semitism on college campuses. The most striking example is Columbia University where [...] pro-Israel outsiders were disrupting the classrooms of these professors [falsely accued of anti-Semitism], secretly video-taping their lectures and being turned, as the Columbia Report put it, into informers for the pro-Israel lobby. The real story was the harassment of professors who were critical of Israeli policy.

Stephen, sorry, but I doubt that you are a Christian minister. You have a "dog collar" and presumably therefore are paid to conduct services within the Church Of England organisation, but to be also a truly Christian minister you need to be born again, otherwise "you cannot understand anything about God or His Kingdom" -Jesus' lesson to Nicodemus in John3:3. The giveaway is your claiming that the land was "stolen" from Palestinians, which is anti-Biblical. My posting name arises from my campaign to denounce pseudo-Christian teaching.

Thank you, Stephen, for these clearly expressed views. I know that you are an Anglican minister and have read some of your writings and sermons online.
I share your concern for peace & justice. So do many Jews, such as Jeff Halper. Here is what Avraham BURG (once of the Knesset), wrote some years ago: "The Zionist revolution has always rested on two pillars: a just path and an ethical leadership. Neither of these is operative any longer. The Israeli nation today rests on a scaffolding of corruption, and on foundations of oppression and injustice. As such, the end of the Zionist enterprise is already on our doorstep. There is a real chance that ours will be the last Zionist generation. There may yet be a Jewish state here, but it will be a different sort, strange and ugly.
There is time to change course, but not much. What is needed is a new vision of a just society and the political will to implement it. Nor is this merely an internal Israeli affair". A. BURG went on to say that those of the diaspora also need to raise their voices too. As we learn of Bethlehem becoming emptier (but rejoice in what the Bible Society are doing for reconciliation with adults and children there), I pray for Stephen and others like him who do what they can to promote justice. God told Abraham his desire was to bless ALL NATIONS through ABRAHAM. I deplore the holocaust - also oppression by those of any nation against another. There is a growing movement for non-violent protest among Palestinians. Shalom.

Quite true.Israel's greatest success story is getting so many to believe that being anti-Israeli government is anti-semitic, thereby stifling criticism.Some Jews become so incensed at criticism of the Israeli govt that their over-reaction could provoke anti-semitic sentiments where none exist.The state of Israel has been extraordinarily brutal and intransigent since its victories in the 1960s and 70s and lost much if not all the sympathy it won.

Semite is the genealogical term defining a descendent of the tribe of Abraham.ie Arabs and Jews.So an Arab can never be anti semitic. The word anti-Semitic has been highjacked to refer only to anti Judaism.

I agree with everything Mr Sizer has said. The Palestinians are suffering at the hands of a country that is abusing its superior military power and economic strength, and its international allegances. The Palestinians are suffering at the hands of a government that has become set on a policy of pandering to its extremists by literally stealing land - expanding beyond its borders. Palestinians are NOT suffering at the hands of the Jewish faith. There is a real difference.

Zionism is the world's evil, their agenda is dangerous and while its obvious in killing babies in Palestine, its hugely hidden in the west. Wake up to the new terror everyone, Stephen Sizer is right.

Zionism is very racist.............

King Leopold a member of the Coburg Jewish family slaughtered 10 million Africans and is still revered in Belgium. His family still enjoy the fruits of his labour yet they call other's anti semetic.
Why do jews think they are the only race of people who are persecuted?
Stop telling lies and tell the truth......... One Jewish gentleman has committed the most heinous of crimes in the Congo - 10 million African souls was lost........ it really is a horrible world we live in.

The Jewish state of Israel has gone from a noble cause to a present day apartheid state. As it leaders and population embrace an evermore rightwing zionist agenda it is in danger of becoming a modern day Nazi state. This not only insults humanity it also insults those who suffered under the yoke of Nazism during WWII.

So, yes Zionism is racism, and sadly, yes the jewish people will be associated with this.

Zionism is a form of Racism. That is why the Zionist Federation supported Hitler in the build up to WWII, undermining the then Boycott German Goods Campaign.
I don't respect religious beliefs as that is to not think about whether ideas are flase.

This man has projected his own racism into my living room, and I am deeply offended by him. I am a Zionist, which means that I believe that Jews have the right to live in the land of Zion, i.e. Israel. We have been there for three thousand years, and we will be there long after this man and his hate-filled rhetoric are gone. To equate Zionism with racism is what all anti-semites do. He has no interest in peace, only in inciting hate. He is no Christian. His obsession with Jews means that he is oblivious to the persecution of Christians in all Arab countries. And he didn't even answer the question about persecution of Jews in this country. He would only have to go to any university to see how Jewish students are being harassed and threatened because of people like him who delight in stoking up hatred against Jews. He is pathologically infected by this virus that erupts because people like him cannot bear their own evil so they project it onto a scapegoat...the Jew.

During the period when Adolf Hitler led Germany did being anti-Nazi make you anti-German?

The talk did not match its title. However, I was brought up with a lot of Jewish friends around me. We went to school and high school together. They were very nice people. Buy seeing what the Israeli government is doing to Palestinian children today, if I see one of my old Jewish friend supporting the the Israeli's policy I will run away from the for miles. I think what Israel is doing to Palestinians and people of middle of east in general is despicable, abhorrent and in-human. Can somebody wake them up please before it is too late and the whole word turn against them.Surely one day the Americans and European will realize that they backing a terrible, racist regime and then what?

Palestinians, the latest `underdogs` to serve as tokens of upper class largesse
and clemency, will continue to be espoused and championed until the next suitable camouflage for hierarchical exploitation comes along.The jews are currently being displaced from their primacy as `victims-of-the-moment`, a function of defective mass attention-span, and soon must be relegated to their usual position of most convenient scapegoats.Mankind,generally, is so impenetrably stupid that all awareness of real motive is absent, and the most savagely self-advantaging behaviour is presented under a meretricious cloak of seeming morality. This insane mechanism of mind is currently at work - Jews versus Palestinians!

Rev. Sizer means well but he is mistaken on several key points, so that he comes to a wrong conclusion. First of all, no one stole Palestinian land, Jews had lived in the country for nearly 4000 years : there were no 'Palestinian' people until the nomadic Beduin and assorted Arabs from Syria and Egypt flooded in seeking better conditions than in their homeland, conditions created by the Zionists. Throughout the British Mandate, the word 'Palestinian' was used to mean only the Jews of Palestine : hence the Anglo-Palestine Bank, the Palestine Post newspaper and so on. The Arab inhabitants were classified as south Syrians by the Ottomans, and had no sense of nationality until after the Trans-Jordanian army illegally occupied the west bank of the river, and the Egyptians illegally occupied the Gaza Strip.It was only after the Israelis reconquered these lands from Moslem states trying to drive them into the sea that Arafat , encouraged by Russia (bent on making mischief)discovered 'Palestinian' nationality - he was an Egyptian of course.

Today, while all the Arab leaders scream abuse of Israel, (incidentally the only place in the Middle East where Rev. Sizer could build a church), the Arabs who make up 20% of the population of Israel are desperately anxious NOT to be under either Fatah or Hamas government : they are rushing to make sure they stay the isaeli side of any future border.

And why not ? Israel is the only country where they enjoy fill civil rights, can reach the highest position in the land, (including members of the Knesset, High Court judges, Ambassadors etc), their daughters can walk anywhere withot being harassed, their young men can be openly homodsexual. Believe me, to the Palestinians of Gaza,(or the ordinary Egyptian, come to that, a life in Israel looks like paradise.

Denis Vandervelde

The mere notion of whether Jews are persecuted or not is ridiculous! Here once again we see the media clouding the issue. If the Jews are persecuted HOW DOES ONE DESCRIBE WHAT IS HAPPENING TO THE PALESTINIANS? I feel it's imperative to take into consideration what the Jews are doing. How many of us are aware of Israel's brutal treatment of the Palestinians? How many of us know that Israel's borders have steadily grown at the expense of the Palestinians? How many of us know that Israel has had an unprecedented 65 resolutions passed against it in the UN? Of course the reason Israel has been able to flout international law so readily is because the US has blocked any possibility of the UN taking any action against Israel. Why is it USA blindly supports Israel & in doing so incurs the wrath of all reasonably minded people throughout the world? This is because Zionists not only control US politics but also virtually the entire mainstream media! This may surprise the uninitiated but it is undeniable! If one looks at the news coverage in the Western media all we ever hear is 'Israel says this & Israel says that!' It is so biased in favor of Israel it is almost laughable. In my opinion Israel is the most racist state in the world & their leader Netanyahu is by far & away the most dangerous person on the planet!

Semitic languages comprise four language groups.......... Arabs are semitic.

Origin of Anti-semitic stems from the 1800's by Ashkenazi Jews.

How is is that a "Christian" clergyman like Sizer does not utter a single word against the brutal persecution and killing of Christians in the Middle Eastern states he visits? Does he go to these states and speak out against the supposed 'abuses' of the state of Israel whilst ignoring the abuse and mistreatment of his fellow Christians in Islamic states? How would Jesus feel about that I wonder?

Zionism is the root of economic destruction of every unstable county, aswell as the funding of illegal settlements in palestine donated by the uk and us tax payer on behalf of the government. The term semite refers to the semetic languages which include aramaic,arabic and hebrew. So muslims who speak arabic can claim hate towards them as anti semetic as much as jews do, but due to ignorance and indoctrination promoted by the controled media the majority of the population miss the bigger picture. There are dozens oof laws that protect jews from people expressing freedom of speech such as the disagreement of the number of jews ethnically cleansed by hitler,which will lead to inprisonment for excercising your rights. The points i have made are few as time permits.

A number of people on this thread seem to think that Arabs cannot be anti-Semitic because Arabic is a semitic language and if they hated Semites they would be hating themselves. They go on to suggest that Jews have hijacked the term "anti-Semitism".

This is a schoolboy howler. The term "anti-Semite" was invented in the nineteenth century by the German Jew hater Wilhelm Marr, who founded the anti-Semitic League. He chose this name partly in an attempt to sound scientific and partly as a euphemism. His hatred and that of his successors was directed only at Jews, never at Arabs. The term has not been hijacked since it has always been used as its inventor intended.

That "anti-Semitic" doen not mean anti-Arab is borne out by the fact that Yasser Arafat's mentor, Haj Amin al Husseini, Grand Mufti of Jerusalem and leader of the Palestinian Arabs earlier in the twentieth century, was an honoured guest of the Nazis in Berlin during the Second World War. A notorious anti-Semite, he recruited thousands of Bosnian Muslims for the Waffen SS in the war.

I agree the jews still talk about what happened to them but they are doing exactly the same to the palestinians but yet they act as the victims in all this.

AS an atheist and a secularist I agree 100% with this speaker. We must world wide separate state business from religion. There must be one law for all in every country in the world and this should be secular; devoid of any religious beliefs. Let people have their religion if they must as long as they are not prosletising and interfering with state business.

Hi, can I just sy that I compteley disagree with Mr Sizer. Isn't it up to an individual to decide whether they feel offended or whether they feel persecuted or single out above every oher counry in the world. I personally feel, that Israel is singled out more than any other country in the world for criticism. China, India, Pakistan, Iran, Syria are just a few countries who I believe deserve criticism far and beyond what they receve from us. Why do you always single out Jews for criticism? Israel bashing in my own opiion is Jew bashing at the international level. You are entitled to disagee with this as much as I am entitled to feel this way.

"Zionism is racism" - so the movement supporting the Jewish people having a homeland to protect themselves from racism, is seen as racism, by this person? How does that make sense? Is it not anti-Semitic to deny the Jewish people their right to a homeland to protect themselves from racism?

This is the only commonsense clip in this series. All the others come over as such blatently biased propaganda.

Criticism of Jews and Israelis on specific personal , economic, political and humanitarian behaviour should never be inhibited or allowed to be deflected by Jewish individuals and interest groups waving the cloak of "anti-semitism". Criticism, and more importantly transparent accountability, are important features to help us all enjoy living in a fair, tolerant and civilised world community.