4thought.tv

Listening to David's views on Christmas was like re-hearing everything I have ever thought or felt about this wonderful cultural tradition. I too grew up in a family religion that didn't celebrate Christmas and it is a wonderful enjoyable novelty for me. Although I am without question an Athiest I do feel that for all it's faults I would not want to live within a world with religion/spirituality. It really does explain the human condition at its most passiornate and vulnerable. Christmas though has evolved to encompass so much, and an opportunity to show generosity, charity and to give your time to others. A special cultural condition that we can all take from what we want from it. The Christian purists of course though will almost certainly take issue with this view!

I came across David Badiels' talk whilst waiting for the next programme to come on and was surprised and pleased to find someone else who shared the same ideas as me! -apart from the father christmas bit that is.I have been an athiest for years but also enjoy churches and a good sermon. I now have to go and look up fundamental atheist-which is what David said he was-didnt know there were different types.I do like christmas and all the celebrations, especialy the trees and lights.Happy christmas!
julie

Your happy memories of the traditional family festivities are what is giving you goose pimples, it's nothing to do with religion. There are many atheist carols/winter songs, and community activities that give me the same feelings as those you talk about.

I agree with David Baddiel in that atheists can enjoy Christmas. As a non believer I do no have to stop and think of the true meaning of Christmas but can enjoy all that Christmas has become; for me this is tinsel and lights, good food and wine, spending on fun and luxury items that I wouldn't otherwise buy, extra public holiday, TV Christmas specials and most of all sharing all this in the company of those that mean the most to me, my family.
I enjoy carols and Christmas pop songs for the nostalgia they bring, but I will not be singing along.
I am completely relaxed with my non-belief and will continue to enjoy Christmas.

I agree with David Baddiel in that atheists can enjoy Christmas. As a non believer I do no have to stop and think of the true meaning of Christmas but can enjoy all that Christmas has become; for me this is tinsel and lights, good food and wine, spending on fun and luxury items that I wouldn't otherwise buy, extra public holiday, TV Christmas specials and most of all sharing all this in the company of those that mean the most to me, my family.
I enjoy carols and Christmas pop songs for the nostalgia they bring, but I will not be singing along.
I am completely relaxed with my non-belief and will continue to enjoy Christmas.

Yes, indeed. I agree 100% with David Baddiel. I also am comfortable with being an atheist. I also know that god doesn't exist, but I can enjoy the Christmas period; the gifts, the food, the party atmosphere and the good things about Christianity. Mr David Cameron is wrong when he states that we need to go back to Christianity, we need to go forward to a new way of garnering community spirit and family values. It is possible, it's just that religion has had a monopoly for the last couple of thousand years. Let's not go back to a belief system that is completely outdated.

It's only correct to point out that Christmas exists because of religion. As for atheists enjoying it, David himself is proof that atheists can indeed enjoy Christmas, he and others alike clearly get a buzz from the Christmas spirit that believers exude. Merry Chris+mas one and all.

An atheist Jew? Don't get that one. now a Christian atheist that would make sense. Any way they nicked the mid winter festival from the Pagans so why not enjoy.

Of course atheists can enjoy Xmas, perfectly described by David, in my opinion. After all, for the vast majority of people religion plays no part anyway, there is avague awareness of Jesus's birth, but that's all. Xmas is far too commercialised, which puts pressure on ordinary peoples' budgets, but it's about children having a good time isn't it? This time of year would be pretty miserable without Xmas.

Being an agnostic I find it arrogant for you to say that you know there is no God. But the meaning of Christmas has gone, in a generations time it'll be blured more so, it's a holiday of excess for people to look forward to and brings families together, so it must be a good thing. I won't be celebrating the birth of father christmas on the 25 th but I will be seeing family that I woulnt be seeing otherwise. Therefore it's not all bad.
Post script. Miss seeing you on the telly man, bring Back Baddiel & Skinner...

I'm an atheist and love Christmas, given that the festival and most of its traditions have almost nothing to do with Christianity I don't know why this would surprise anyone. The Pagan origins whereby it was the solstice, so the darkest day of the year where it must have been fairly bleak and rubbish to have a celebration instead where the evergreen trees and bushes are symbols that Spring isn't too far away is great.
When I was a kid we'd only ever get gifts on Christmas day, nothing else at any other time so it was hugely exciting, I still keep that alive for me by not buying that indulgent thing that I want at any point in the year, I wait and buy it for Christmas instead. Dressing up the house, the food, the more food, the drink, buying gifts for the wife and Son, seeing how well they're received is awesome. I've no time for religion, find most of its concepts offensive but given that a proper Christian's Christmas would be quite different to mine I have little association with what they get up to I'm quite happy to have my fun and leave them to theirs.

i love christmas , and im an atheist, its a wonderful mid winter festival, i buy into all wholesale , ive been to winter wonderland in hyde park, 7 times already , mulled wine , hot choclate ,bratwerst , carols , the lights , family friends and time of work , whats not to like . its a celebration of life, nowt to do with gods , peace and love are human attributes that should be celebrated . Nice one david xx happy Christmas .

Yes an Atheist can enjoy all the trimings of Christmas, but not enter into its meaning.
Being a Jew and knowing that nations heritage and history, aught to believe in the Messiah, its their Messiah and not only a Gentile Saviour. In the Old Testament in the book of Micah chapter 5:2 Is the prediction where Christ(Messiah) was to be born (Bethlehem) the birthplace of king David. Isaiah 7:14 describes the virgin birth. Isaiah 9:6 describes his humanity "A child is born" His deity "A Son is given" His future reign "the government will be on his shoulder. Santa is fictous it may bring a smile to children, but its entirely false. David Baddiel is named after one of Israel's greatest kings. Who prophesied of the Messiah in Psalm 16 "Thou wilt not leave my soul in hades (grave) neither wilt thou suffer my holy one to see corruption", this was confirmred by the preaching of another Jew Peter on the day of pentecost (the feast of weeks) which happened 50 days after the feast of the firstfruits, which signified by the ressuretion of Christ. The first Christians were not gentiles but Jews. Jesus (Jeshua) meaning Jehovah the Saviour the same name in the hebrew as Joshua or Jehoshua

Of course atheists can enjoy Christmas. With many of its aspect's origins from non-Christian sources, you can even enjoy it if you are anti-organised religion.

Sure Atheists can enjoy Christmas time but obviously they are not celebrating Jesus birth. However, there are consequences of missing out Christ in our everyday life. It was interesting that the programme was followed by the worldwide disasters that have occurred in 2011. I believe that anyone who reads the bible with an open ming will be convinced of the existance of God and Jesus the Messiah. The bible is full of prophecies, the majority of which have been fulfilled. For David's information, these fulfilled prophecies include the Jewish people being scattered throughout the world because of their disobedience, Israel becomming a nation again and the Jewish people returning there. It also tells us what will happen in the last days before the return of the Messiah and these signs include natural disasters, famine, drought floods, nation rising against nation, ethnic group against ethnic group. All happening. Can I recommend that David watch 'The Daniel Project'.

Brichan
Surely you cannot disprove prophecies by claiming that prophecies were not made of other things. I am not a bible scholar but if you read Matthew 24, the chapter that predicted all that is happening today, yes it refers to 'this generation', the generation that sees all the signs referred to indicate the signs of Jesus second coming, just as when the people Jesus was speaking to were told, 'when you see the branch of the fig tree becoming tender and putting forth leaves, you know that summer is near.' So you have a misunderstanding of the generation referred to. I'm sure there is also a passage that indicates that the Jewish people would return to Israel by air although the word aeroplane is not used. If I find the passage, I'll get back to you. Please look up 'The Daniel Project' website and find out about 20 biblical prophecies. All that I ask is that you keep an open mind and incidentally, it is presented by an unbeliever who has 'no axe to grind'.

I think David Badiel has got something 180 degrees out. Saying you can't understand human nature without religion is saying we need religion to understand ourselves, which contradicts his claim to atheism. Since the defining premise of atheism is a disbelief in god, you can't understand religion without an understanding of human nature is, I would say, the truth.

Brichan, Tony & Catysou
I go back to the suggestion I made in my first e.mail, check out 'The Daniel Project' website and look at the evidence. There are so many specific prophecies, not ambiguous, that have been fulfilled, and I look on in amazement at the accuracy of these prophecies. In relation to Brichan's remark abour aeroplanes, relating to the Jewish people who had been scattered from their homeland (fact), Isaiah 60 verse 8 says 'Who are these that fly long like clouds, like doves to their nests.' (this has been hapening for years and is still happening),that He would re-establish the state of Israel (fact, happened in 1948 about 4,000 years after it was prophecied), that He would bring the Jewish people back to the land (fact, has been happening for years and is still happening),that the land would would yet again become lush, green, fruitful and productive from the desert wasteland that it had become (fact). There is plenty more evidence if you want to check it out.

Fundamentalist Atheist? As an Atheist, I hate to hear those words.

Our country is traditionally christian (I'm an atheist), but our church is one of the oriental orthodox churches, so we don't celebrate Christmas with such grandeur as the Western world does.

Christmas? What is the meaning of Christmas...?

I cannot wait for Chri$tma$ $ale$ in my local $hopping mall...

ALL the customs of "christmas" were stolen. The mother of all the many Dec 25th gods and festivals is Solstice, which was on Dec 25th in ancient times.
all of them.
Google newgrange, built in 3,000 BC. Go to "AtheistUniverse.net" and look over their COOL YULE group, to learn more of the REAL history of Dec 25th traditions.
The church could not stop the heathens and secular festivals on Dec 25th, so in 5th century, they declared it was Jesus's birthday.

The Old Testament forbids xtians from putting up decorated trees in their homes. (Jeremiah 10)
It is a heathen festival, and i love the whole season!!
Almost all the atheists i know celebrate in December, whether they call it Solstice, to honor it's true roots, or Saturnalia, or Yule, or christmas, we love celebrating family, love and joy, too!

This was the first 4thought that i think i have seen and I loved it. I agree with everything he said I feel that I am an atheist, but love churches and sing hymns( at weddings and funerals) (and when at school)I love Christmas and all that it means and in fact all the good things that religion teaches. But im still atheist.