4thought.tv

It helped me understand the speaker's point of view.

I don't understand the speaker's point of view at all.

This makes me feel angry.

Just watched this video, It seemed to ignore [out of convenience?] all the Genetic research going into mental health conditions at the moment.

This research often includes adoption studies to rule out social factors statictically.

I do agree that mental illness in individuals can be worstened, triggered or even caused by physical illnesses but I think it is un-scientific to rule out the concept of mental illness being "real".

To deny that it is real seems to be an ideological issue. It is unscientific to ignore empiricle methodology. You can't start with an opinion and try to proove it. The idea behind empiricle, scientific thoguht is that you do what you can to disproove your own opinion. If your opinion survives this then it can be seen as a valid theory. This video avoids evidence pointing to Genetic causes of mental illness and is therefore not something I would consider a respectable statement about Mental Health.

This makes me feel sad. I don't understand the speaker's point of view at all.

This was the biggest load of tosh I've heard for ages, keep going till you find a physical ailment & equate it to neural pathways without any intervening link! Ye, really 'scientific' by comparison to psychiatry!

This makes me feel angry.

I have been through the ADHD diagnosis process as a child, and I distinctly remember having many tests. The process did not consist merely of a psychologist telling me "Well, youre hyper, so I reckon its ADHD".
I feel Mr Daniel's attitude makes light of people who have to deal with having such a condition, on a daily basis.

I am disgusted with the arrogance of the approach to ADHD. We are only just beginning to understand the brain, how can anyone say with any degree of certainty that the condition is not biologically based, even a most cursory search of the internet can show that studies are starting to explore the biological based for ADHD. Just because we don't understand the science yet doesn't mean we won't in the future.

This makes me feel angry, sad and ver very offensive.

I completely agree with Brian. I have personally witnessed many children who had been diagnosed with ADHD. Their parents changed their diets and nutrition and their behavior totally turned around for the better.

Being someone who has suffered from both mental and physical ill health for most of my life I would like to see a time when we stop differentiating between mental and physical health as both are intertwined. Mental problems can cause physical symptoms and vice versa. A holistic approach should be the norm with a multidirectional approach to treating it which may or may not include medication. Unfortunately there are limits to NHS funds so we cannot test everyone for every illness and some people may be misdiagnosed. I am middle-aged and have only just discovered I am suffering from a rare genetic disorder which may have contributed to my MH problems.

0252 Re anti-psychiatry. I agree totally with the point that mental illness should be looked at scientifically. I now know that there are at least 30 possible causes of psychosis, (no idea of causes for other mental illnesses but would guess there could be quite a few). Our son was not tested for ANY of them by the NHS when he was first diagnosed - I have done much research since but knew nothing about the illness before. After 2 years on medication, we moved area and he started getting regular blood tests - this didn't happen before. From the tests, after speaking to the GP, (I gave up asking the Psychiatrist), we ruled out a few of the causes and the GP is ordering another blood test to rule out B12 vitamin deficiency. If it comes back that our son is deficient, he will have now been on Risperidone for 3 years unnecessarily. WHY are the UK government putting people straight on to medication without first checking if there is a similar cure like a vitamin deficiency???? Backhanders from the suppliers maybe? Our son refused his tablets, so now has fortnightly injections costing about £140 a time. If he is deficient in B12, (I am hoping it's something that simple), then a pot of tablets is a fraction of that cost - I have already started him on a low dose just in case and you have to build the dose up over time. It will also mean he has been on strong, dangerous medication unnecessarily all that time. You can imagine what I think about psychiatrists and those in the government who write the rules about treatment, (called "NICE guidelines" - not very nice or sensible in my opinion). I have no comment on Scientology as I know nothing about it and have my own spiritual interests.

This makes me feel angry. It reinforced what I already believed.

I learned something from it.

He made a lot of sense particularly about getting proper medical examinations. I saw it with my own mother.

This makes me feel angry. I don't understand the speaker's point of view at all.

I was totally disgusted with this programme, this guy has no understanding of evidence based medicine and needs to get his facts straight before broadcasting such rubbish.

Never in my life have a heard probably a bigger load of tosh. ADHD is a well recognised and scientifically proven psychological condition. We know that ADHD is caused by a chemical imbalance of dopamine in the brain. SCIENTIFICALLY PROVEN FACT. And what is this rubbish about anorexia being caused by a zinc deficency? Anorexic is a cognitive condition caused by people percieving themselves to in fact be something they are not. How can this man say that psychiatry isn't scientific when so much research and science has proven his theories to be untrue.

It reinforced what I already believed.

I agree. Psychiatry ruined my aunt's life by pumping her full of drugs and giving her ECT, after which she committed suicide. If there had been a full medical examination by a proper doctor and appropriate help, she would probably still be alive.

Any parent loves their kids to bits but saying you have to put them on drugs at a young age for things like ADHD can't be right. It has been implied I am a bad mother because I refused to put my daughter on them. I felt pressured and because I didn't give in to it, I got the feeling they thought I was stupid. Hearing what Mr Daniels says doesn't solve the problem of bad behaviour, but it does question the science that I and other parents have been asked to accept as the reason for our little darlings playing up.

It reinforced what I already believed.

Let's put it this way... I would rather die than than have my children subjected to the mind altering drugs of psychiatry. My children are all stable, heathy and happy without having had a drug of any kind in their lives. Mind altering psychiatric drugs change one into someone you do not know any more - and they kill. Just read the warning labels - you might need a magnifying glass to see them - but they are there, and the "side effects" are unbelievably devastating, resulting in death in many cases. One can always find a better solution than and psychiatric one! PLEASE check out the the dvd Marketing of Madness - I am sure you can see it on the net for free.

I am sorry but I have to disagree with those who speak against Scientology based on my own experience. Having been subjected to the somewhat farcical opinions and whims of Psychs as a child and forced to take drugs for behavioural problems that were cause by their drugs that they gave me for a false diagnosis of epilepsy that was caused by an undiagnosed physical health problem and resulting in three suicide attempts (which is a known side effect of psych drugs) Scientology saved my life. Since becoming a Scientologist, I have found more natural ways of dealing with mental health issues through drug free, natural healthy food balanced diet and regular exercise.

I have been drug free since 2004 and have been free of psych drugs for more than fifteen years. Since putting into practice the methods of Scientology, my life has improved immensely although there is still some way for me to go.

It has not been an easy road for me to recover from the effects of the drugs forced on me by this fraudulent and farcical pseudo science call PSYCHIATRY but it has been well worth all the effort because I am now more alive, more healthy and more vibrant and full of vitality, both mentally and physically than I ever was before I became a Scientologist.

I have overcome learning difficulties that dogged me for nearly forty years and now got qualifications after my name and am able to study absolutely any subject because of the teachings of Scientology and have achieved more since 2004 than all my years at school.

May I ask what do you base your opinions on? Who is the third party you are listening too? Have you ever experienced Scientology for yourself and be fully informed from the source?

This makes me feel happy.

Well done Brian for broadcasting on national television, vis a vis psychiatry and its partner in crime, Big Pharma, that the emperor wears no clothes and that we've all been taken in my a massive hoax. I think some commenters on this page perhaps need to think about what drives this hoax. Put it this way: inventing fictitious illnesses and 'syndromes', then providing lucrative 'cures' for them is a highly profitable business...

Brian Daniels made sense in that there is usually an underlying physical problem that causes mental health problems. I should know, because i have had experiences with my own daughter. She was put on psychiatric drugs that made the situation worse!

There is no proven blood, urine or chemical tests to detrmine ones mental health condition. Psychiatry is just s pseudo - science!!

This makes me feel glad. It reinforced what I already believed.

Psychiatry has destroyed my family with their drugs and so-called treatments. My Aunt was put into a mental hospital for menopausal problems and remained their for 40 years until she died. She was electro shocked, drugged and experimented on. These drugs have destroyed my son's life too, he doesn't get the right kind of help he needs either. Brian is totally correct it's all about opinions and there is nothing scientific about it.

@ Xenulovesyou I am afraid I have to disagree with you about engrams because in the medical profession, their definition for the word Engram means lasting trace and it has been physically and pathologically tested with applied sciences that engrams do exist because engrams are last traces and they are stored in the memory on a cellular level. Just to clear up the word Thetan for you as well, The word "Thetan" derives fro the Greek word "Theta" that is the name of a letter in the greek alphabet and is symbolised by the letter o with a line through the middle and is known as "Spirit" so a Thetan is a spirit, a person as a spiritual being without which the body would never survive.
If you are going to air an opinion on something, please make it constructive, research the topic at source and not third parties and clear up any misunderstood words.

This makes me feel happy. It helped me understand the speaker's point of view.

....Happy I have made my own judgements about religion based on fact and see this crazy cult for what this is.

Everybody here is so eager to justify mental illness as physical and I am afraid this is a subjective rather than an objective viewpoint. The notion that anybody in their right mind would seek to rely on Scientology to reinforce this view is quite frankly bonkers. Wake up and accept reality. Scientology will not solve your problems (or cure mental illness).

This makes me feel angry and ver very offensive.

Brain Daniel's "human rights group" - The Citizen's Commision on Human Rights is one of the cult of scientology front groups. The founder of scientology, L Ron Hubbard went to war with psychiatry when his book "Dianetics" was given dreadful reviews by the American Psychiatric Association.

There is nothing scientific in scientology whatsoever, there is no physical test of "engrams", the emeter has no medically proven use and the "purification rundown" is based on unscientific ideas and dangerously high doses of niacin.

If scientologists stuck to removing "body thetans" and leave medicine alone, the wolrd would be a better place.

John: This forum looks to me to have been hijacked by the fanatical followers of a ridiculous cult 'RELIGION'??? All you have to do to become more aware of the reality of mental illness and the numerous successes of psychiatry, is to visit a mental health acute ward for a few months and see the results for yourselves. Yes it is true that in some cases, there may be a physical explanation for mental illness which is why on admission there are thorough, routine physical health checks; ruling out any underlying physical condition which may lead to delirium or psychosis. There is a deservedly dark perception of psychiatry which has come from its dubious past however, this belongs firmly in history books as today's mental health services are thankfully unrecognisable in comparison. If you read accounts from the service user literature, you will discover a much more balanced and sensible argument. The lunacy of Scientology should not be adding to the stigma of mental illness by trying to ignore its existence. For too many people, it is a very real and debilitating illness, and one for which psychiatry should be duly appreciated in its attempts to offer some respite, hope and in many cases, recovery.

@ John Wood - I think you are right that there is something wrong about the pharmaceutical industry and its greedy practices despite being in an already highly profitable business, but I cannot agree with the idea that these conditions are fictitious or invented. If we lose this tendency to demonise the psychiatric industry and see it as a unilateral body, we might open our eyes to the fact that it is full of individuals whose motives are to help. I imagine that some are like me, and have experienced mental illness and such in their family life or with close friends and are all too aware of the nuances and subtleties of these conditions which make them difficult, if not impossible to pin down. But that does not mean that these conditions do not exist or that they are not extremely detrimental to the condition of both the sufferer and those connected to him. I can tell you from personal experience that the consequences of certain conditions, such as OCD and ADHD can be extremely severe! I would be glad if my stepfather would take a medicine that would help to keep his problems under control. Heaven knows, he has tried every alternative cure offered and suggested to him, but will not take drugs - ironically, due to his condition.
I take the point that there may be some irresponsibility and negligence on the part of some of the doctors or psychiatrists prescribing things like Ritalin and Respiridone but I am cautious to believe that they are all puppets of the pharmaceutical industry.
Certainly the pharmaceutical industry does use these tactics of identifying syndromes and creating ˜needs' in order to justify the use of a medicine, but this IS NOT confined to the psychiatric industry. Indeed I just read about how this business tactic was used in the food supplement industry, when a company made a small and ineffectual change to a product to retain a supplement's exclusivity and value and to prevent it from becoming a substance which would be available as a generic item.
In support of the individuals working in the psychiatric industry, I would say and if I were to go into clinical psychology and I was working at diagnosis, I would consider it important to distinguish between things like bi-polar and depression. Unless these 'syndromes' are identified and made distinguishable, I would be doing my client an injustice through not attempting to understand the true complexity of his / her case. From a broader perspective, through failing to acknowledge and label these subtle distinctions between conditions we would seriously limit our understanding of the human mind, as well as our potential for developing our knowledge in this area. Similarly, if I was working toward developing a treatment for certain conditions I would consider my work incomplete if I did not work at the research and development of a medicinal solution. I would be doing an injustice to deny or ignore a concept that may be effective merely because it is medicinal, and I would be restricting development and understanding of the area by narrowing my field of research - I think we need to be experimental in order to make these scientific breakthroughs!
I am aware that Scientology is harshly critical of the psychiatric industry as a whole (labelling it 'The Industry of Death') and when I have asked my Scientologist friends about this, they tell me that it is the Pharmaceutical industry and Psychiatric industry (because they go hand in hand?!) which is behind much of the suppression of Scientology because they are threatened by the positive change that Scientology could have on the world; that by creating a drug-free world, the industry would lose its power and wealth. So this is the reason why there is so much suppression against Scientology: it's the drug companies protecting their business interests.
The thing is though, I am beginning to think it might be the other way round. I am not saying all Scientologists are knowingly engaging in this activity, but true to previous 'brainwashed' form, I think many are regurgitating data which they are told or that they are cleverly presented with, which they do not necessarily understand in the broader context, because it appears justifies their opposition of this industry as a good and constructive cause. I suspect the reality is that higher up in the echelons of the Scientology organisation the realisation was made that in fact, it was the advances of the Psychiatric industry and plain old good science which posed the greatest threat to Scientology; and that Scientology was the one suppressing the Psychiatric industry in the shrewd interest of business, not the other way round!! How ironic would that be?

To those who state that Scientology does Brainwashing, I am going to let you know that this is 0% Fact and 100% fiction. Brainwashing was developed by Psychiatry and was used extensively during WWII, it has been made illegal and Scientology is 100% against such practices and unless you have cold, hard and conclusive evidence of such practices, it is wise not to falsely accuse.

If you don't agree with Scientology that is fine but live and let live! Don't listen to third parties who know nothing about it or those who have a grudge because they were thrown out for practices that are unbecoming of a Scientologist but seek full information at the source before you develop an opinion and air it.

This makes me feel glad.

I agree that psychiatrist are mis guided souls who are to quick to give labels to the vunerable .How many of these who work in this field would educate themselfs instead of useing drugs that they find hard to explain how they even work on our brain chemistry .how can you put toxics in to a human being and not to think that eventual we would not go mad .How many victims of these drugs have ever been cured and led a normal life .The dr talks of suicide it would be good for him to look at the risk of suicide while his patients are being prescribed his drugs

This makes me feel unscientific.

Psychiatrists want to drug the whole planet. They constantly invent more and more disorders which are unproven and unscientific. Their latest target seems to be children and in America it is not uncommon for a two year old to be given an antidepressant!I totally agree with Brian Daniels who spoke about ADHD. Children of five and six are being prescribed amphetamine stimulants for a condition which cannot be proven by any valid blood or lab test. The stimulant drugs can cause weight loss, stunted growth, tics, liver and kidney disorders, heart defects and even sudden death. Surely doctors should have more sense than to give SPEED to little innocent kids, why can;t they realise that every child is different just like fingerprints and they all develope at different rates. All parents should read the book "The ADHD Fraud:How psychiatry makes patients of normal children" by Fred Baughman MD and neurologist. Children deserve the right to have a childhood without their every move being psychoanalysed .

I do not agree with scientology. Some of psychiatry is evidence based but some is not. But I do agree that some people are harmed by psychotropic drugs. Some people have an intolerance to these drugs and can react in the most unpredictable way. I am one of those people and have suffered serious consequences. Medics are reluctant to accept this fact because drugs are the quickest and cheapest fix. Many drug warnings say that suicidal ideation has been noted by the MHRA but is not substantiated. That is insulting to the people who have experienced the horror of drug- induced suicidal ideation. Non-drug Therapies are expensive and not widely available on the NHS. If you can access them they are limited to 6 sessions. The work of the CCHR organisation could be very productive in the UK if it sticks to the correct agenda - that is - raising awareness of the dangers of psychotropic drugs.

I am not fanatical and Scientology is not a ridiculous Religion. If you had bothered to read an earlier statement of personal experience as being a victim of this proven to be a pseudo-science Psychiatry you would see the truth. Psychiatry is an outdated Nazi ethnic cleansing machine and was wholly supported by Hitler, who was a fanatical supporter of the branch of Psychiatry known as eugenics. As far as the pharmaceutical industry goes, are you aware of the amount of toxic waste products they put into their so-called medicines? People are born free, man makes slaves and Psychiatry, it sister Psychology and the Pharmaceutical industry are nothing more than tools to suppress the masses in order to control them for their own ends by the global elite. If you believe that Psychiatry can be proven to be a viable science then show me the biological tests, including blood tests, urine samples, tissue samples etc all of which can be pathologically and physically tested. If it can't be physically tested, then it don't exist. Let me ask you something you have memories of your past that are not documented on official records right? Are you telling that those memories are not real? as was said before the word "Engram" as defined by medical dictionaries means "Lasting Trace" all cells when damaged in any way, has a lasting trace of that damage which are called Engrams. If you can prove that Engrams don't exist, I would like to see your expert evidence and not some mouthy hearsay.

For a better and simple understanding about Scientology, I would recommend two books "Scientology A New Slant on Life" and Scientology the Fundamentals of Thought" Now I came from a background that was hampered by a misuse by doctors of over prescribing drugs for a falsely diagnosed condition of epilepsy and the drugs hampered my education to the degree that I was first assessed to have learning disabilities and later these same so-called experts decide I had learning difficulties. My point is that these two books were the first ever books I had read on the subject of Scientology and I can tell you, it was so easy to read and understand these two books that I read and understood these two books within the space of 6 hours, not bad for someone who left school with a reading age of a 10 year old and was supposed to have learning difficulties. Well there you have it. I am not asking you to convert or forcing an opinion on you but I am asking you to look at these two books so you are better informed about what Scientology is trying to achieve and that is the betterment of mankind

I hope Channel 4 realise that to maintain ANY credibility the next "4thought" has to be a counter argument from a QUALIFIED, EDUCATED, EXPERIENCED, RESPECTED and CREDIBLE PROFESSIONAL such as a psychiatrist. The vulnerable and gullible will just lap up the words of a Scientologist who typically espouses the lovely, easy, quick-fix explanation. This is a recruitment advert for a cult which financially exploits the vulnerable. "4thought" need to attach a disclaimer citing the many documented abuses of law and rights at the hands of the Scientology establishment. "4thought" should not expose people to a doctrine without fully educating people on it. To claim "freedom of speech" and impartiality is destructively naive.

Sorry Tim but have to disagree because Scientology does not pick on the vulnerable. As is mentioned in earlier posts "Scientology is about the betterment of mankind" The goals are as follows: A civilization without insanity, without criminals and without war, where the able can prosper and honest beings can have rights, and where man is free to rise to greater heights. Can I ask why that is such a bad thing? If you are talking about a profession that preys on the vulnerable, the weak and less educated people then Psychiatry and the Pharmaceutical Industry would come top of the list.

It reinforced what I already believed.

Scientology gives tools to the vulnerable and more able a citizen the less vulnerable citizens become no matter what your income, even if on benefits existence Scientology tech that is affordable. My own events accessing Scientology I have saved the state an enormous amount of funds and time. Those finances arrived from a no choice service of force from psychiatry that seen Oneself without choice drugged every two weeks. Seven years plus of freedom and stability thanks Scientology.

All that has been dark in the medical field through the ages has all played a part into saving the lives of millions each year around the world. It assist the charity and aid workers in third world countries save the lives of starving children, trapped tsunami victim; it helps the rape victim find peace in their counselor/therapist; it gives a dying mother a new kidney. Being a burns victim, I can appreciate the horrors of adapting skin graphs but hey, I'm grateful for it. Just as I was the sleeping pills and the counseling I received while I needed it. The giving out medication for ADHD in children is wrong, there is no denying that but that lies in the irresponsibility of the prescribing doctor and possibly the parent. I do feel that the way we treat illness is changing. We aren't practicing barbaric methods as we once did. Each break through is welcomed in my eyes. I'd be more grateful to medical science saving a family member struck by cancer than Scientology offering a touch assist. Yes, the medical services have room for improvement, so does everything. But I see so much good being done there!! So much!! And long may it do so.

There are many treatments now preferred to be used by psychiatrist and doctors now such as Cognitive Behavioural Therapy and counseling, support groups before placing people on medication in light of the fact that medication can make a persons condition worse. So there isn't a specific test you can determine in a lab for a mental illness?... A fact weighed too heavy to disprove the reality of mental health. But there IS testing done, LOTS OF IT and will always look to developing alternative, drug free therapies. There isn't a test to prove the existence of thetans either....