4thought.tv

has Malcolm ever read Lamentations?

Ah this makes me angry! I am christian, but what he is saying is offensive.

I felt that the evangelical christian Mr Bowden might have downplayed the reality of what is known as clinical depression. This medical disease is so critical that it requires expert knowledge and intervention. I have a christian friend who is a sufferer and is on constant medication to manage his condition. The side-effects of these antidepressants doesn't help at all. Are you saying my friend is responsible for his disease? I know him to be one of my best friends ever, with a kind heart to help people. I am sure there are so many people out there who are prideful and self-centred, etc but do not necessarily suffer from this frustrating condition. People say only wicked people die young but look at Mugabe of Zimbabwe (88 yrs old and still maiming his own people!)

Only recently, a popular evangelical authoritatively claimed that unforgiveness and hatred is the cause of cancer, therefore, he blames cancer patients as the victims of their own actions!

Faith can heal depression BUT it goes simultaneously with an individual's cause of the depression. If you take a close look at our daily life, you will be surprised that we all live under the spine of faith in many ways for instance in marriages, we marry people whom we just met in the course of life and trust them with our lives let alone share with them our possessions etc. Same can be said in business dealing where people speak of using the gut feeling, I see that as faith. Faith is based in believing, hoping in, embracing, and seizing the truth. Faith has to be advised by knowledge to form its basis, without which there is no faith.
A person with depression can be cured by having faith in the ability of God to comfort and heal. The foundation for healing is built by a relationship between an individual and God. The bible has a great account of many who lived by faith and accomplished great things. Some died before seeing what they believed God for but died with faith that it will happen.
God can reach deeper in the root of the depression when you trust Him to help in His own ways and time. Unfortunately, we lack quick fixes and give up early. ''The deeper you go in the bush the longer it takes to come out''

If you want to cure illness, go to medical school. Anything else is experimenting, dangerous, and terrifying. Please stop it. Cults think they can cure sickness to you know. And drug dealers. And magicians. Just stop it.

I blogged in more detail about this recently as I think it's very scary the sliding scale we're on here.

http://lefteyerighteye.wordpress.com/2012/04/24/gay-cures-welfare-reform-and-christianity-mental-illness-isnt-just-a-pejorative-term-for-things-you-dont-like/

Oh and there have rather a lot of depressed and even suicidal Christians in case you hadn't noticed. MH is an issue for everyone.

Channel 4 I have always respected You. and for your fairness. Jon Snow in particular has inspired me beyond word's.

Yet Channel 4 You have just disgusted me and destroyed my respect in You as a broadcaster.

How could you especially in the climate of scaremongering and Hate crime increassing by the day, towards those with a disability/including Mental Health issues.

This vile broadcast is not about choice andd giving people the right to air their voice. I can only see it as Pure Hurtful discrimination'.

I ask you to take this off the airwave's before even more damage is done.

The fact is that the majority of people who are addicts, criminals, depressants and generally did-engaged are a result from 'orphan hearts' the world has detached fathers (mostly) and mothers from their children and as these children develope the world turns them into adults 'without a cause'

I know as I was one of them- 2 things to read ' I am your father' by mark stibbe and 'Jeremiah 29 11-13' which I have tattooed on my arm!

JJ

By broadcasting this do you realise the damage you could do? There's already a lot of stigma surrounding mental health and some people feel they can't talk about it and don't ask for help; those suffering with depressive based mental illnesses who are in a bad place may take this verbatim. When your mind is so confused, when you hate yourself so much, you're thinking what is the point? To then be told this, they'll be thinking ' I am weak just as I thought, I am a bad person. There's no point carrying on' and may push them over the edge and be what makes them take that last step.

Wow - as a commited Christian who has been so for over 30 years, has been in a position of leading and helping others - and also a sufferer of depression, anxiety disorder and stress related breakdown - I am flabbergasted about this viewpoint. This kind of thinking simply does not help. There is a tension for people who hold faith. If anything makes suffering mental health issues more difficult. I KNOW what the bible says, I know what I believe - yet I cannot help the way my PHYSICAL illness makes me feel. It's this inability to read depression as a physical illness that causes more suffering than the illness itself. I am sure Mr Bowden really believes what he is saying - and I sympathise totally - however if he is not speaking from experience then I think there is a barrier to knowing what it is like, that cannot be bridged.

I am a Christian, and I have long-term anxiety and depression. This is not because of any lack of faith on my part: hanging onto your faith when there seems to be a dark curtain surrounding you isn't easy, but I'm clinging on by my fingernails. As far as living a Christian life is concerned, I do my best to help others who have mental health problems by listening, supporting and sharing my experiences with others.
Mr Bowden seems to be unaware that certain people have a predisposition towards developing depression, just as they may to having high blood pressure, diabetes, epilepsy, arthritis etc, and having certain conditions like epilepsy, chronic illness or pain may cause people to develop depression. Also, some medications can cause depression as a side effect. I find Mr Bowden's comments unchristian, uncaring and ignorant: depression causes people to feel guilty enough without being told that their illness is their own fault. For myself, I can only echo Job 13:15 "Though he slay me, yet will I hope in him; I will surely defend my ways to his face."

I support freedom of speech, but I believe that this 'point of view' ought to be given the same treatment as the proposed 'homosexuality is a sickness' bus posters. I understand the concept of 4thought, but the views of this oxygen thief could be very triggering for some very unwell people. I'm disappointed that this has been given a platform.

Broadcasting this could trigger an already depressed person to self harm or even attempt suicide. He has no psychiatric qualifications and is using the suffering of those with mental health problems to advance his own "career." Well, he will be judged by his God, just as he now feels able to judge others without any compassion. The bookies is more Christian.

Having suffered MH issues for some time I find this extremely hurtful and down right offensive. these views are the reason why there is still a stigma attached to MH. this should be taken from the airwaves before it does any more damage.

Channel 4 has a responsibility to its viewing audience

I am surprised at you Channel 4 for allowing this man to air his bigoted opinion on air. If he chooses to believe God can cure depression that's up to him - I only hope for his sake he never has to suffer with depression and have to deal with the fact that this is not the case. People with mental health problems suffer stigma. Shame on you and shame on Mr Bowden!Please all my fellow depression suffers do not ake this man's words to heart - we have a illness like any other illness and hopefully we may be well one day.

Just because you are a christian does not mean you are physically / mentally healthy - Ive seen passionate Christians develop degenerative diseases, they are now in wheelchairs but no one tells them their illness has come about because of something they have done / not done. It is tough being a christian when you feel exhausted and numb and don't feel joy or love but i keep praying and worshipping and meeting with others every week, also having counselling to try and sort things out AND crying out to God for help. I am depressed because of a chemical imbalance in my brain not because of what I have done / not done. I would be interested to see where this mans theories are backed up by the bible...

i am christian and have also survived severe depressions....and i do believe that this has made me a much better person....it also makes me able to empathise with the one in four people who do experience depression unlike this man who calls himself an evangelical christian. i think his remarks are pretty offensive to people who have experienced mental health problems and are on their road to recovery

I wonder how Mr Bowden explains away people who have such severe depression that despite years of standard treatments, and numerous serious suicide attempts, cure is finally achieved after complex specialist psychosurgery. I know of a GP for whom this was true. There are many other people, often successful and happy professional people with families, who suffer with severe episodic depression that needs inpatient treatment. Is he seriously saying that these people are selfish and self centred, but if they had cancer they would be ill and deserving of care and sympathy? As a doctor, a loving wife and mother, and a person who has had bipolar illness all my life, I will be interested to see whether Mr Bowden has the courtesy to respond to these questions.

We are all entitled to our opinion but this so-called christian is making it up as he goes along.He is the sort of person that made me want to give up the christian faith and I hope I never have to be counselled by a person like him. We must do positive things in our life to support others and not prey on the ill and unfortunate.

It is beyond doubt that faith can be a great comfort to people who expereince mental ill health, and that spirituality, and something to believe in help many people stay focused, and positive.

It is beyond doubt that consumerism and obsession with material things can drive up inequality, which drive down mental wellbeing.

It is also beyond doubt that this kind of fundamentalist viewpoint is distressing to anyone touched by mental ill health whether they be people of faith or not.

There are countless examples in the Bible of the kinds of things that DO help people with mental illness to recover. Looking out for those less fortunate than yourself, speaking to and welcoming those who are marginalised, showing people the other cheek, and offering validation and hope are all there.

But judgemental stigmatisation, and this is precisely that, is less common than many fundamentalists portray.

Mr Bowden:'For many years I have given talks to churches, schools and youth groups etc. and have now put these into video format.'
Source: http://homepage.ntlworld.com/malcolmbowden/indexx.htm

False prophets, I cannot think of anything more disturbing and depressing.

Malcolm Bowden
I've had Depression a few years back.
And now I am better.
But you know what, at no point did I turn to God for help.
Go figure.
I'll take my madness over your sanity any day of the week.

I find this film extremely offensive. The views this man communicates are based on total ignorance, a lack of intelligence and a lack of capacity for understanding and empathy. Not really surprising considering his beliefs are based on story telling. How very, very sad.

This guy has obviously never had depression! I am a christian and find what he says very hurtful.

What foolish PRIDE he is exhibiting to suggest that he knows the cause of other people's depression.... may he receive a lesson to help him to see how foolish and dangerous his views are.

Malcolm Bowden does not know what he is talking about and is a dangerous man. I hope he never actually goes anywhere near people who truly suffer from depression. I used to live in a town in North Yorkshire with a large evangelical church. Members of the church were forbidden from using mental health services as if they suffered from any mental problems it was because their relationship with God was troubled. Church members who, not surprisingly, were not helped by the church's so-called counselling had to go in the mental health offices by the back door so that people who might know them wouldn't see them and report back to the church officials. What does that tell you about christian love and kindness? Two things outwith Mr Bowden's experience of life.

whoa that made me angry! I don't believe that all depressed people are all me me me, I have found that some are often so sensitive and it's the trying to please others rather then look after themselves that can cause the problem!

Wow. Really hard to comment calmly at this kind of stuff. Opinion based on no evidence or scientific medical research. From my understanding and experience(though I could of course be wrong) , depression stems from past trauma, whether it be childhood abuse or a car accident (PTSD). To say that it stems from not talking to a being that has never been proven to exist and cannot possibly ever give a reply, then say that you deserve misery for not accepting it, is both harmful and insulting.

In his biased view of life, Malcolm is presenting a non-scientific - and worse - non-humanitarian view of depression. Depression is a disease of a multitude of causes...some learned as children of unloving abusive and/or critical parents, some as biological causes, ad infinitum. Does he suggest that cancer sufferers have brought on their disease and if they become evangelical 'christian' they would 'find the light'? Narrow-mindedness and prejudice at its worse. That's five minutes of my life I'll never get back.

I actually think that saying people who have depression are self-obsessed is an extremely un-Christian thing to say. What happened to compassion? Isn't that one of the strongest Christian values? You wouldn't say someone with schizophrenia was selfish, so why say the same out a genuine mental illness which affects so many. If what Malcolm says is true, then let God be the judge of that rather than judging people yourself.

I am a Christian and suffer from chemical depression. To make such sweeping statements about both Christianity and depression show both a lack of knowledge of the causes of depression and, in my opinion, a lack of Christian grace. Such arrogance does nothing to win people to the love of God.

The reason Christianity popularity is falling is through such videos and opinions from arrogant, and deluded individuals who have no concept of the world outside of a book wrote by a person many years ago. It is views like this that once stopped effective treatments and therapies that now treat real problems. Unfortunately the dogma of religion has been unable to cure mental illness so step aside for science that seems to be doing a better job if not perfect.

Ridiculous assertion that humans must humble themselves before God not to be depressed. Depression can be a chemical imbalance or organic problem within the brain...no ammount of faith or humility before God will help this. Medication first, then some form of talking cure, CBT or mindfulness training is quite often the best option. It makes me quite angry to hear so called 'Christians' speaking from such an ignorant perspective. Shame on you Mr Bowden, people with a depressive illness deserve our compassion and rational help, not your superstitious rubbish best left in the dark ages.

How DARE he say that depression is rooted in self-centeredness, pride and selfishness! He clearly does NOT understand understand depression in the slightest.

I am disgusted and saddened that this man made the comments he has. Has their not been enough stigma attached to Mental Health issues in the last few millenia?? I am deeply shocked.

I have been suffering with MH issues for a long time and do not need some ridiculous little man telling me I'm weak and the like. How DARE he?!

Dear Christian god - please strike Malcolm Bowden down with clinical depression with immediate effect.

Ensure it is severe and debilitating, and lasts for at least a year. To teach him how wrong his uneducated opinions are, make sure he loses at least 50lb, his job, his home and the respect of his family. Screw the chemicals up in his brain so bad, that he discovers what being suicidal is really like and make sure he needs sectioned for at least a month.

To make the lesson realistic, esure he endures every physical symptom that comes as part of the illness, and that he experiences the true horror of separation and void of feelings. Rob him of joy and feed him on sorrow. Turn out the lights and push him into the dank vile void.

Then tell him he must live like this for one whole year as a lesson for being so arrogant, so opinionated, and so very, very wrong about clinical depression. Tell him he must spend the following year repenting his diabolical sins against humanity and must apologise to each person living with depression that he has wounded and offended with his vile and bigoted religious spouting that borders on evil.
Amen.

So so so so disgusted by this! I am disgusted than Channel4 even allowed it to be broadcasted! My mother suffers with severe clinical depression and I've grown up having to deal with it and live with it on a day to day basis. The way he's trying to say that it is a choice genuinely knocks me sick. I bet there are thousands of people who's depression has been made worse by people with beliefs like his. And probably even more who have developed a mental illness as a result of all the abuse that went on before the 90's in religious boarding schools and such like. Sickening. Disgusted by this.

OH MY GOOD GOD - WHAT A TOTAL DISGRACE
Having suffered Mental Health issues for a while after a nasty experience in life and I find this extremely hurtful, disrespectful and down right offensive, people like this are the reason there is still a stigma attached to Mental Health. this should not have been broadcast and in doing so I feel you have made CH4 another reason for stigma attached to Mental Health,
Have you any idea what this programme, this mans 'opinions' is doing now to people like me....????
I cant get a job because of the stigma attached to Mental Health so let this guy come and live in my life for a day and let him see that it is an 'illness' not an attention seeking situation
I am totally disgusted and very very upset by Mr Bowden, fuming, annoyed, disrespected and appauled

Absolutely disgusted with Mr Bowdens comments. Those who choose not to follow a faith are not lesser human beings than those who have a faith. The implication being we are more selfish and egotistical which he says are apparently the causes of depression. How very arrogant he is claiming to know the causes of something so complex as depression. Who is the egoist now thinking of himself as some sort of figure of authority on this subject. Faith seems to have blinded him into thinking that he has this authority.

Is this man for real?! Depression is an illness which in a lot of cases people have no control over. This is nothing to do with being self obsessed or thinking only of yourself. It is a sorry state that in 2012 people are still so small minded. It also amazes me that this man is a Christian because as someone who believes in god myself I believe in compassion and understanding for people who may be in a difficult situation which has led them to the place they are now

I am so angry about this! As someone stuggling with this I find this extremely offensive and insensitive. Fair enough, it's a mere opinion but some people are so wrapped up in themselves and their own ideas that they fail to see that people, whether Christian or not, can experience problems and need genuine help, rather than criticism from close-minded people.

I am a healthcare professional and see depression on a daily basis. How dare this man accuse people suffering from depression of pride and self-pity. He clearly has no concept of the underlying pathophysiology of depression and the devastating effect it inflicts on patients and their families. This gentleman claims to be a christian, but I believe he completely lacks empathy and forgiveness that are its main tenets. If anything, I pity him.

I thought Christians

Is faith a remedy for depression? that was the question... simple answer... No of course it isn't...

Why did you let this guy speak? I'm all for hearing interesting and thought provoking ideas and views on life, but this guy was just an idiot. I won’t comment on his ill informed and ridiculous rant, if we spent our lives responding to this kind of drivel we would waste time that could be spent in other ways. I only write this to ask the producers to be more careful in the people they select to speak. It’s a great program and I really enjoy it when I get a chance to watch. It is usually positive and inspiring. Don’t let negative, horrible idiots, judging others rather than sharing their own experiences highjack the program. Would you let a racist have a rant? Why would that be different?

I have just seen this. How dare you Channel 4. If someone came on 4thought saying that being in a wheelchair is a product of self pity their feet wouldn't touch the ground before a report to the regulators. But depression is always fair game for these nutters.

I completely agree with Mr Francis (comment below). The man in the film is arrogant and ignorant. Clinical Depression is a serious neurological condition and no amount of Faith, regardless what religion, is not going to cure that. To insinuate that people with this condition need only to let God help them in order to be cured, is foolish in the extreme. Life just doesn't work that way.

Malcolm Bowden's arrogance, lack of understanding or compassion for sufferers of depression confirms his Christian stance. 'Pull yourself together' in other words. Certain I wouldn't emerge from counselling with him with any clear picture of my situation. If you go into a session, as a counsellor, with the view that you know best the outcome is obvious and not helpful to your client. In fact this would be detrimental. I speak as a counsellor and sufferer of bi polar disorder.

As a qualified counsellor/psychotherapist (4 yrs study) and a member of the BACP, I question this mans oppinion and would like to know what qualifications he has to inform his oppinions on mental health.

What a complete and utter idiot. How dare he state that depression is caused through the lack of god! I'm atheist and proud of it! when I have been depressed in the past I have got myself out of it without turning to fairy tales and bronze age myth to get me better. These people are just sad individuals who prefer to live in a fantasy world because they are just scarred to face reality!

Wow. A few things Mr Bowden is missing there. First, he seems to be very proud that he is not a proud man. And he seems to be very proud of his faith for a 'not proud' man.

Secondly, I wonder if he's taken into account the numbers of depression sufferers who regard themselves as Christians? My bet is that if they had the misfortune to listen to his views, they feel worse about themselves.

I really hope that this hasn't pushed anyone past the point of no hope and I hope that Mr Bowden had considered the potential effect his words could have on sufferers and their families alike.

I am glad that Mr Bowden has his faith and I really hope he never experiences depression himself.

As usual another ignoramus from the bible camp. If your basic premise is belief in a provably non-existent deity,then your subsequent thinking will be false also. This guy knows nothing of modern neuroscience and our understanding of the brain - I have been depressed and what continues to depress me is ignorant Christians spouting their rubbish about things they know nothing about. My depression was caused by EXTERNAL circumstances that I could not control - ie things that "God caused"- so if there is a God then GOD CAUSED MY DEPRESSION - this obviously is absurd,and like as not would not be accepted by dumb Christians anyhow. Why give these people airtime - send them to school to learn science.

I live with someone who suffers with depression, she is the kindest most unselfish person I have ever met and I feel that giving this self absorbed, narrow minded, petty and sanctimonious little man the stage to spout his hateful opinions is not only hurtful to many people but very bad taste by Channel 4.

I am sorry Malcolm Bowden, the God that I know and love would not agree with you... God is a God of love.. I felt that your views lack compassion for your fellow man/woman and lacked the understanding of mental health issues. This type of view, spoken in such an unloving way is typically what puts non - Christians off the church and God.. the feeling of being judged and looked down upon..and unloved.. in a world that doesn't love we are here to show God's love

Mr Bowden clearly lacks an understanding of mental illness such as depression. If he asked someone with depression if they wanted and chose to become depressed I bet the answer would be no! What he doesn't understand is that humans react to things differently and that depression is caused by a mixture of a serotonin imbalance and different sociological factors and predisposition. As someone who has depression I am extremely offended that someone like Mr Bowden believe I chose to have the illness.

What a load of tosh!! I am glad this man has his faith and has obviously never been affected by depression but to belittle everyone else who has because we are non believers is naive and delusional . Trying to make depressed people feel guilty by saying it's their own fault because they are non believers, is , quite frankly disgusting . Take a leaf out of the Dalia Lamas book and show compassion for all without judgement.

Mr Bowden's comments really worry me. He's suggesting that if Christians are ever depressed, they're not real Christians. I'm training to be a Church of England priest and have been told I'll probably need a low dose of anti-depressants to keep the chemicals right for the rest of my life, so feel I have a bit of 'inside experience'. I'm concerned at the damage his comments will do not only to people who have depression, but also to reinforce all too popular views that Christians are judgemental, self righteous and out of touch with reality.

Mr Bowden is either unbelievably arrogant, uneducated or just plain stupid. With his kind of views, it is little wonder that people are turning away from any kind of religion. I say to him, show less piety and demonstrate more faith. Add to this maybe some compassion. Judge not lest you be judged sayeth the Lord!

I was really saddened to hear such little understanding of mental illness - I use the word illness because like physical illness there is clear evidence of biological and physiological changes that lead to depression. It is really sad that you feed into the huge amount of stigma and misinformation already out there. 1 in 4 people experience depression at some point in their life - that could be you, your neighbour, your friend. Should it ever happen to anyone you know, I hope that they are never told it's due to their self focused nature, selfishness, and inward looking attitude. I think you need to go away and read up about depression, go and speak to people who have experienced it and show some true christian faith in opening up, trying to have a better understanding - and make it easier, not harder, for people to talk about mental illness.

I suggest that Mr Bowden tries to becomes a better Christian and is a little more thoughtful before blaming those who are sick. One thing is clear and that is that Mr Bowden appears to know about as much about Christianity as he does about depression.

I have spent the vast majority of my life with a positive attitude and trying to keep going and then out of the blue i had severe depression and being hospitialised. For me it has been as devasting as having a fatal illness. To hear someone with the arrogance to say that being depressed is that people are self obessed and that you would not be depressed if you believed in god. Feeling suicidal is the the loneliest place in the world and it has been at that time that I felt God had deserted me. I think it is important that the idea a more compassionate reading of the scriptures should be promoted. I believe in God and look for the good in everyone.

I was angered but not surprised by Mr. Bowden's comments. I have seen many examples of when religion can bring peace, comfort and unity to individuals and communities, but there are also so many examples, clear to see to anybody with an open enough mind and a social conscience to see, of when religion drives deep divides, fear, ignorance and hatred into the same.
My sister is struggling with depression at the moment. She is, however, quite the opposite of the "proud, self-centred and self-pitying" person described by Mr. Bowden. She is a selfless, humble and kind person, and shows every minute of her life more Christian spirit than this man could muster in a lifetime. She is not judgemental or condescending, and certainly doesn't pretend to understand conditions, whether they be psychological, medical, social or otherwise, that she has never experienced.
It is a very frightening time for her and my family.My sister has had to make some very difficult decisions as a result of her illness, and is suffering hugely. It is certainly not a situation she has "very deliberately decided" on creating.
Perhaps Mr. Bowden could turn his attention and energy to improving himself, and worry less about others.
I am not a religious person (my sister, incidentally, is), but, since Mr. Bowden deems himself so important as to speak for God, it might serve him well to take a dose of his own medicine:
Matthew 7:1-5 ESV

“Judge not, that you be not judged. For with the judgment you pronounce you will be judged, and with the measure you use it will be measured to you. Why do you see the speck that is in your brother's eye, but do not notice the log that is in your own eye? Or how can you say to your brother, ‘Let me take the speck out of your eye,’ when there is the log in your own eye? You hypocrite, first take the log out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to take the speck out of your brother's eye.
It is a very frightening time for her and my family.

I for one am offended by this video as a sufferer of medically diagnosed depression. I cannot believe Channel 4 actually broadcasted this. Disgusted.

Through my life I have had to deal with many MH problems, medicated OCD, depression etc. Going thru a low time at the moment and paused to watch this film, wish I hadn't it certainly hasn't made me feel any better! I have always believed in a higher power.....whatever that maybe, I don't look to organized religion for support and after this film I doubt this will ever change! We are all entitled to our opinion..........but some people should really think before they speak on film!!!

Channel 4 has allowed Mr Bowden to appear and to ridicule people with mental health problems. The moderators on here will not allow me to ridicule Mr Bowdens beliefs in return so let me be be more concise.

Mr Bowden has no understanding of mental health problems and is not qualified to speak on the subject, so his opinons are worthless. What is more disturbing is that he has no understanding of the basic precepts of Christianity and is willing to alienate a group of vulnerable people without a second thought.I don't think you have any connection to Jesus, Mr Bowden.

Oh dear. Another Christian displaying an astoundng lack of understanding and sympathy for his fellow man. And they wonder why the church is in trouble. I hope he doesn't try to 'treat' anyone using his philosophy! To assume that God will provide the answers to issues like this is one of the main problems with faith. It is up to us to find the answers, all by ourselves. Hard work, yes, but more productive than the path Mr Bowden seems to be suggesting.

I was diagnosed with clinical depression in my teens. In my mid-twenties my depression developed into epilepsy. Can faith cure my epilepsy?

Where was the humility and compassion in this dogmatic and unsympathetic (unloving) film?

this is both condescending and offensive. MB doesn't take into account genetic predispositions, which by christianan default (an individuals biological makeup) is the work of god.

To truly tackle mental health and how to deal with these issues, mental health classes need to introduced into secondary schools. There's drug education, sex education, but why isn't there mental health education? People need to understand the importance of mental health, how it can affect them, and how to take proactive measures to improve their wellbeing.

I go more in depth about this in an article I wrote here: http://blogs.warwick.ac.uk/jordanquinn/entry/social_commentary_teen/

It's not so much the fact that MB claimed faith to be the cure, but rather accuse those who suffer from mental health issues to be self-pitying and proud is the main issue. It clearly indicates the lack of understanding that's still prevalent today.

I agree Mr Bowden lacks knowledge of clinical depression.My faith helps greatly but sometimes medical intervention is necessary.

I was very sad and alarmed listening to Malcolm Bowden. In his counselling of depressed people I am concerned that he will have laid a burden of guilt on them by his condemnatory remarks "that their depression is the result of self-centredness, pride and self-pity". I never read of Jesus condemning a person for feeling depressed. There are many reasons why someone may become depressed. Some people become depressed because they have experienced a shock, a sudden unexpected event in their life which triggers a chemical imbalance in their brain, over which they have no control. It is true that our feelings are greatly affected by what we are thinking and we should aim to get our thinking in line with the truth that God gives us in the bible but sometimes events overtake us and depression can set in. A depressed person often already feels guilty about how they feel and to be publicy condemned for being depressed may send them into an even deeper depression. I'm a Christian and I know I am fallible and it is understanding that God loves me in spite of knowing everything about me that draws me to love him very much. As a Christian I believe that we are called by God to take his love and compassion into a broken and hurting world - in other words to carry on the work of Jesus. Jesus himself said that he didn't come into the world to condemn the world but to save it.

Malcolm Bowden, you are a disgrace! How dare you? How dare you judge other Christians and tell them they are not true Christians because they are depressed? Have you any idea what you are talking about? Clearly not! Depression is not about pride. It is about humility and sorrow that the world is so broken. Broken by arrogant fools such as you. You do so much of the Devil's work in turning people away from Christ. You display so much pride. I will pray for you, and i hope that God will have mercy on you.
Amen.

You haven't got a clue about depression and those who suffer from it.

I suffer from clinical deppression and I am an aethiest. I assume that Mr. Bowden would say that this illness, which almost killed me, is my own fault. I disagree. Like most diseases of the body or soul deppression is no ones fault; it is a tragic accident of miriad factors.

Deppression is the absoloute loss of hope, love AND faith.(I have always been an aethiest; religious faith is not what my illness stole from me.) Being a christian would not have saved me from it.

I am by no means a zealot aethiest; Im perfectly happy for anyone to pursue which ever religion they choose. But sometimes I do think that the conflict I felt towards my own religious up brining is one of the things that may have contributed to my becoming ill.

I've just watched this on tv and I was appalled!
I mean to suggest that people who suffer from depression are self centered and rooted in pride is absolutely shocking.
I mean aren't we supposed to be forward thinking about mental illness now? Talk about it and all that?
Allowing this man on tv is a major step back in my eyes.
I know people will say that everyone is entitled to their own opinion and they are I just hope anyone with a severe mental illness does not see this clip as it could be very distressing for them.

I am disgusted and offended by Mr Bowden's arrogant, ignorant ramble. He preaches about mental illness as though it is some self indulgence or way of seeking attention, when it is in actual fact a medical issue. If I were to appear on tv suggesting that cancer sufferers had chosen to become ill then I would become the victim of a witch hunt. In fact, I would never be permitted to say such a thing on channel 4 in the first place I am sure. Why is depression or mental illness any different? Yes, depression can be brought on or exasserbated by difficult life events, but it is in essence a biological condition. This man does not know the first thing about brain chemistry and is a dangerous influence on others.

I feel tonight's film on depression did nothing to enlighten others on the subject of faith or depression. In fact, it angered me. Having attended an Evangelical Church in the past (and other churches), I stopped going because the sermons and attitudes were so devoid of the understanding of human psychology: the needs, and hurts, and healing, that are important factors to every individual. Instead, guilt and one's shortcomings are brought to the forefront, which do not encourage a sense of love and acceptance, confidence, the feeling of self worth, and belonging. I am a Christian, and I know Jesus accepts me, loves me, and walks by my side, especially when times are difficult, without laying guilt trips or criticism on me. Preachers are humans after all, and full of their own sin and issues, so they need to be very careful of their own pride and power over others, especially with people that may be vulnerable. I have experienced depression, and only a fool would say that it arises out of pride or self indulgence. In fact I feel the film could be very dangerous to both sufferers and their families, though it's narrow and misguided content. It also reminded me why I don't go to Church any more. People,....like Jesus, can experience the most horrific of experiences and conditions, and many sufferers would weep tears of joy to be able to be rid of depression. Most of the moving and tender help that came my way was though impromptu meetings with total strangers, counselling and friends, and NOT through the speakers in pulpits, who would do better to get a degree in psychology before opening their mouths, and causing more damage. On a positive note, if you are searching for meaning, God's love, or wondering if you can make it through another day, by all means pray for help, it always helps me...... but don't forget all of God's other helpers, like a doctor, friend, nurse, self help group, counsellor, a family member who understands, a person at the bus stop who shows some kindness. God can answer prayer, with a kind face, a knowing look, and a warm smile.

As a Christian leader I totally condemn the view that depression is not a real illness. That view is insensitive, arrogant and dangerous!

I have just sat and watched Malcolm Bowden comments and i must say i am outraged by his narrow mindedness. As human beings we all have periods of differing moods which affect each individual in different ways and that normally is caused by life struggles. Even true cristians can enter into a period where there lives can feel totally lifeless, empty, and apathetic, Depression varies from one person to another, but often there are similar signs . Often these symptoms are part of life’s normal lows. But as individuals the more symptoms we suffer with the stronger and intense the feels gets, these symptoms are overwhelming and can be disabling, so how could this possibly be down to pride and self centredness. Often depression can cause the person to feel suicidal due to feelings of hopelessness and a way of escaping pain and yes this can happen to christians. If you look at stastics women are more likely to suffer depression, This is due in part to hormonal factors, particularly when it comes to premenstrual syndrome, postpartum depression, and perimenopausal depression.
Experts believe that depression is caused by a combination of biological, psychological, and social factors.
MEDICALLY . The depression-like behaviors are now thought to be caused by the release of cytokines into the brain. Sometimes, however, cytokines and other chemicals are released inappropriately and leads to depressive behaviors. scientific studies have shown that cytokine-induced processes are active in our brain during depression and that these processes lead to an imbalance in the metabolism of serotonin. Surely any person can see that depression is an illness and not just attention seeking. I feel malcolm bowden needs more insight into the true illness of depression

Mr Bowden
Having know a number of individuals with bi-bolar condition two of who are committed christians I have seen no evidence that by letting god into their lives that it can cure a metal illness. In fact in the case of one of these individuals it ultimaley made her situation worst as she couldn't reconcile her beliefs with behaviour brought about by her condition there by causing a greater anxiety.

Although I'm sure having faith can help many people through illness it is surely arrogance that by acepting one set of beliefs an illness can be cured. Mr Bowden talks a lot about the pride humans have but I see nothing but pride in the fact that he has chosen the 'true faith'

Depression as a choice? Would anyone choose that?
Choosing to be offensive under a banner of Religion appears to be a different matter!

I am a Christian and I have been depressed. You see, it's an illness. I don't chose it in the same way others don't choose to have a physical illness.
Malcolm has seriously misread the Word if he feels that being a better Christian means we never suffer.

I am an evangelical Christian and am also bipolar. Jesus loves me and accepts me 'just as I am'. As my brother in Christ Malcolm, you must learn to do the same. God actually uses people like me in this difficult world, to express emotions which are hard to share and to help others who are suffering. I am an artist and poet, and I know that my work moves and speaks deeply to people. The Cross is difficult to contemplate at times, but suffering is central to our faith and thereby also our lives.

There's more to life than length of years,
More to death than dying.
Regrets that flow in copious tears,
Sighing, yearning, crying,
For solution
Or salvation
Or simply want of holding
Onto something
That is true
Pure
Untainted
What more can we ask?
Understanding
Acceptance
Peace of mind
Thy Will Be Done

Malcolm, your views regrading depression are obscene, offensive, vile and sickening and I fully support your right to express them. If and I repeat if there is such a place as hell, I hope that your God will allow you to spend time in that neighbourhood, so that you may fully understand the torment of the unbidden, unasked for living nightmare that is depression. On the other hand maybe your God will allow you the humility to overcome your ignorance so that you may truly aid and serve the sick rather than preach to them.

Clinical depression is not a 'choice' as he suggests, it is a genuine medical condition which needs appropriate treatment. If this is the compassion shown to sufferers of mental illness by someone who purports to be an evangelical Christian, I'm glad to be a non-believer. Perhaps if Mr Bowden had experienced clinical depression himself, he would realise that it is not a 'choice', in fact it's an illness you wouldn't wish on your worst enemy. I find this film offensive - it perpetuates the sort of bigoted views which mean people with mental illness are ashamed to talk about their condition with other people. I'm responding as a life time sufferer of depression, or as Mr Bowden would call me, a self-obsessed, proud and self-pitying person.

As someone who has worked in mental health for many years and who is currently involved in a support group for people who experience mental distress,and have myself suffered from depression for a long time, I am dismayed at the decision by Channel 4 to broadcast the dangerous opinions of this man who calls his own brand of callousness Christianity.
Firstly, suicide rates are rising and there are many people struggling with feelings of suicide. For some, hearing someone state, in the name of supposedly Christian values, that those experiencing depression and 'mental illnesses' are selfish, could cause severe distress.
Also, his opinions do not seem to be based on any actual facts other than his own apparent prejudice. How does any church or Christian organisation countenance someone with such heartlessness to be involved in providing any sort of support to people who may be very fragile?
In my own experience, generally, people with mental health difficulties are the kindest and most selfless individuals I have ever met.
I really hope Malcolm Bowden can show some humility and shame for the hurt he is likely to have caused and I would like to see Channel 4 make a public apology for this broadcast.

what has annoyed me is the misuse of this title.
faith can aid depression & comfort during times of depression.
David writer of the Psalms... Possibly Depressed?
The Bible contains real down to earth people who suffered as we do today. To many Christians Gloss over that fact. The best part in all of this is God's Love overcomes all, luckily fro this man it overcome Pride & Judgement to.

Sorry me again!!!! I love channel 4! After watching a truly offensive video! I would hope that something.........judging on all the comments ( none positive ), should be done i.e. pulling it off the air!!!!

as a Christian Doctor -this is just not the truth

This man does NOT represent my faith! for a better understanding of Christianity and mental health try here: http://www.facebook.com/www.mindandsoul.info

Dear Mr Bowden,

I would always defend your right to free speech and to believe what you wish but PLEASE if you have any compassion or empathy at all PLEASE stop counselling people.
Depression is a very serious problem and can have many causes, some of them to do with brain chemistry.
To advise a vulnerable person with depression that their problem is a manifestation of sin and pride is a wicked form of abuse. You should think seriously about the damage you are causing to people’s lives.

Matthew Wiltshire

I am horrified that this has been aired. This man shows complete lack of understanding of the complex causes of depression and the nature of the illness. People struggling with depression are suffering from a severe mental and physical illness. Would you say that someone suffering from cancer as a result of self pride- i think not.I worry that this man's comment will worsen the stigma surrounding depression and maybe deter people from seeking medical help. Channel 4 usually provides a balanced debate on issues they chose but I felt i had to comment as i thought chosing to air this viewpoint was discrimination against those suffering from depression.

Channel 4 should apologise for the offence caused to so many people by airing this film, which is destructive and dangerous.

I just watched this. I cannot believe that channel four would put something like this on national television. If people take him seriously, it can cause great harm. In my opinion, the broadcast of his ignorant and simply incorrect views is irresponsible programming. Depression is a complex subject - and if anyone has to impart their 'wisdom' on national television it should be psychiatrists, psychologists and other professionals with the proper training and knowledge.
Malcolm Bowden's views are just offensive and undermine what it a very real illness.

Mr.Bowden I am confused, I thought you said you are a Christian, yet I see no similarity to the one you claim to follow 'Jesus Christ'. He always showed compassion to whose who were suffering.It seems the only time he became angry was with religious people. Those who prided themselves on knowing the truth and thinking everyone else was wrong. Mr.Bowden your ignorance on mental illness astounds me. I wonder if you came across someone with a broken leg you would tell them that all they need is the Bible to heal them.
I am very disgusted with channel 4 that you have given this bad man an opportunity to spout such offensive rubbish.

The speaker seems to blame those who suffer from depression for their illness. It is, in his view, a lack of belief or moral fibre which causes feelings of depression. He is wrong. Almost everyone who has suffered from depression, knows a depressive or has treated people with depression knows he is wrong. No amount of debate will dissuade him of his beliefs because his position is not based in experience, but faith and personal arrogance. Moreover, it is not an interesting position but a mundane, thoughtless and unhelpful one. I don't for one moment question the speaker's right to express his opinions in public, but I question the editorial decision taken to disseminate this view on national television when it is so obviously marginal and so easily recognisable for what it is - a petty and sanctimonious display from a man who should be kept away from vulnerable people.

I have a wonderful loving husband and daughter and I've never suffered any major traumas in my life yet I have a chemical imbalance in my brain. I get help from my fellow christians who love and pray with me, we are totally honest with one another when we meet each week and they are part of my support network. Even though all of this is the case most autumns I go down hill and want to hibernate and isolate myself and have to fight against this, but sometimes I cant fight and I need medication - Im not a happy clappy person, and im not full of joy or love but I do have peace and contentment which I believe is God given .

In the words of one who also felt the 'black-dog' gnawing at their heart, ''The one who binds themself to joy does the winged life destroy, but the one who kisses it as it flies lives in eternity's sunrise.''

Oh dear Malcolm...

You say you are a committed evangelical christian. You seem to know the mind of the god space alien very well. Do you speak to it regularly?

You might show some sympathy for people who are starkly contemplating the value of the lives. It might be preferable if you were really committed so you couldn't come out with this drivel.

I've never personally suffered depression, though I believe I have come close. I do have relations who have though, and it was quite clear there was no intent on their part. One relation that I'm still very close to has suffered more loss and other issues since her recovery, but hasn't experienced the symptoms again. At least 2 of the people I know...knew...committed suicide in their depression.

Depression is not something that can be cured by just jollying them along and getting them to read the bible, even interpreted in the very specific way you do.

I think you might be mistaking regular everyday feelings of being "down in the dumps" rather than clinical depression.

Of course, as most of the world's population are not christian, do you advocate enforced conversion to ensure everyone gets the effect you are advising?

what a load of tosh! how on earth channel 4 can give air to someone so pious, proud and intolerent without thought for the damage and distress it is blatantly causing beggars belief! still fuming a day later!!!

How absolutely dare he. I'm a catholic and I understand that faith can help someone to feel better though it can't cure anything, but it is pure cheek and ignorance and most unchristian to say that mental illness is down to self-centered people who want attention..heck, the last thing most of us want is the kind of attention we get for having depression, (P)PND or schizophrenia for instance. If there is a God, the God help this guy.

Malcolm, I would ask you to go back to the heart of Jesus. Your message was rather condemning, loaded with guilt and if the person isnt feeling judged already, they may well be now, and by a man who is supposed to represent Grace. Has ministry desensitised you?

Sorry Mr Bowden, but my experience points to a very different conclusion. Yes, my faith is important, and yes it helps. But it is not a panacea. You would not claim that your faith prevents a broken leg from happening. Mental illness is just as real and just as debilitating. You have fallen into the trap of believing that because it is neurological, it is ours to change as we wish. That is no more true than saying that we are not as clever as Einstein because we are lazy, or not as creative as Shakespeare because we don't try hard enough. You have fallen into the trap of Pelagianism.

You would think that the response to this film would give Malcolm Bowden pause to re evaluate his thinking, but it will not, he is so wrapped up in his delusion that his sense of reality is warped beyond all hope.

It is absolutely disgraceful that this man is allowed to counsel people with depression. The damage he will be causing is terrifying.

John McLeod 26/4/2012.

This man Bowden just has'nt got a clue of what he's talking about. I found his inflammatory & outrageous remarks a total insult to the human condition. To say that 'depression is not a real mental illnes' only shows how ignorant of the subject he really is. As someone who has endured periodic bouts of depression most of my adult life, I think now at the age of 60 I would know whither it is or not.
For him to declare himself an 'evangelical christian' who gives support & advice to people suffering from mental health problems merely beggars belief, what kind of advice could he possibly be offering ?. This poor pathetic excuse for a Christian should be brought to task, should be held publicly accountable to make an apology to all those viewers he has hurt and offended by his unknowledgeable, arrogant & crass comments. He should in fact be completely ashamed of his very unchristian & biggoted diatribe as expressed in this broadcast.

As someone who has mental health issues, I'm both appalled and infuriated by this man's arrogance and narrow-mindedness. Faith in a mythical entity would seem to me to be a higher indicator of mental health problems.

UNBELIEVABLE! Mr Bowden, you have brought dishonour to Jesus, whom you claim to love and follow. Your lack of love, compassion and understanding is just mind-blowing.

I am an evangelical Christian. I am also a sufferer of Bipolar disorder. I do indeed suffer with this illness. Over many years now, I have had to take lithium medication. When I take it, I am stable. When I don't take it, I get dangerously ill- manic, and then suicidal. Clearly, the lithium corrects an imbalance in my brain. How dare you pass judgement on my faith and relationship with God, or indeed my love of the Word of God?

By the way, Mr Bowden, I've had a look at your website. You mention Dr. Martyn Lloyd-Jones. My father was a friend of this dear man, and he sat under his ministry for many years, whilst managing the Banner of Truth publication house. My dad has been a Baptist pastor for over 40 years, you might have heard of him, his name is Erroll Hulse. He has had to beg me, at times of my insanity, to go back on medication. Have you heard of Gaius Davies, a respected evangelical psychiatrist? Also Dr Lloyd-Jones was himself a medical doctor, who certainly acknowledged the need for psychiatric medication.

I notice, from reading the huge stream of comments below, that you have not seen fit to answer ANYBODY? I wish I could contact you more directly. I would love to hear your reply.

Unbelievable that you call yourself a Christian with such judgmental attitudes. I can't see anyway in which your style of 'counselling' would help anyone with a mental illness, including depression. All it would do it pile guilt and blame on their shoulders. It's comments like there that make me ashamed to call myself a Christian. This is never how Jesus would have spoken.

Apparently Mr Bowden has not read the Psalms, many of which express depression.

Malcolm Bowden is apparently too arrogant to realise that he is demonstrating his ignorance, not his knowledge. He purports to represent the “true” Christian perspective, but he is NOT representative of the vast majority of Christians. His presentation was an utterly shameful display of contempt for a group of people who are in great and genuine need.

One other question occurred to me regarding Mr Bowden's attitude: I know of 2 CofE parish priests who have suffered such sevre depression that they've been off work for several months. I've heard quite a lot of annecdotal evidence that many other Christian priests and pastors have been through this too. If Jesus Christ were the whole answer then why would any priest or pastor suffer from it? and yet there is an epidemic amongst the clergy.

I commented very negatively on Mr Bowdens beliefs yesterday. Can I suggest that you go and search for his website to get a better idea of where he is coming from?

It is very out of date but some of the more important information is still current.

i was very disturbed by the comments brought out by m. bowden and would ask where in the bible has he gotten his information from? his information is misleading and dangerous as it puts people of learning about God. all christians should look at the bible for guidance in our lives, not on the wisdom of men as that is always flawed. in mark 7v7 it says 'it is in vain they keep worshiping me, because they teach as doctrines the commands of men' clearly sticking close to God's word can help us through difficult times, from which we all suffer in this modern world today (2 timothy 3v1-5) the bible says many things to those who are depressed in this wicked world in fact, 1 thessalonians 5v 14 says 'speak consolingly to the depressed souls, support the weak, be long suffering toward all' this is one example that is given many times though-out the bible as jesus himself died for ALL people. jesus pitied those in distress and tried to help them see their individual worth. (matthew 9v36; 11v28-30; 14v14) he explained that God values even small insignificant sparrows, 'not one of them goes forgotten before God' how much more does he value humans who try to do his will! lastly, of these jesus said 'even the hairs of your heads are all numbered' luke 12v 6,7. looking to the bible is the only way to see true insight on such delicate matters. a mark of true christianity is to actively show that you have, like jesus says, 'love amongst themselves' in john 13v 35. the information m. bowden portrayed is not the views shared by the bible which holds out a real purpose for mankind and a true hope of perfect life- on earth- to all. if you would like to know more or study for yourself what the bible says why not discuss this with one of jehovah's witnesses who can help you study the bible free of charge and free of obligation? they will help you find out true comfort from this world and hope for the future from the scriptures.

According to his own website, Malcolm Bowden believes, amongst many other odd things, the sun goes round the earth, dinosaurs and humans shared the planet and the earth and universe are less than 10,000 years old.

He also makes the ridiculous claim that schizophrenia is a "learned behaviour" and is in favour of the NHS handing over all treatment of depression to churches that share his unsual beliefs.

His views on depression deserve the same amount of serious consideration as his claim that the sun, planets and stars all rotate around the earth.

Which is to say none at all. He has no idea what he's talking about. There's enough stigma and misunderstanding around mental illness already without him encouraging more.

Are there really so few interesting and thoughtful people, religious and otherwise, with worthwhile things to say that Channel4 has to resort to giving airtime to this kind of nonsense?

Hello Malcolm.

Threats such as "at our peril" may be able to work with children. If there is a God why has this GOD omitted to talk with me but was happy to talk to just a few. I would say God is in peril of being an unknown thing due to education. I would say your God and all other Gods are quite content to let humans believe what they wish about him thus what God/s have said and done differ in milluions of ways. I have great faith in most humans who wish to help me when problems occur and those humans are here now to listen to and ask questions just as I can listen to you and ask you questions. One question is why does your God ignore me thus leaving me as an Atheist, if its my fault then I say its also Gods fault for not giveing me information that I can understand and thus have conversations with Him/Her.
Kind regards and all the best.
Mick

It really irritates me that there is a real contradiction over what TV programming is 'free speech/point of view' and what is simply unreasonable. I bet, for example, that no-one would ever allow a programme to be made where Nick Griffin presents his views on immigration. That's because allowing someone to make a TV programme like that would be considered, quite rightly, offensive to those people it targets, i.e. those from ethnic minorities. So then WHY can a programme of this nature be allowed to be broadcast when there is quite clearly HUGE number of people who will be offended by the suggestions made in this programme? All in the name of free speech? I just don't get it.

what a moron ... clueless and totally lacking the intelligence to make any form of useful oppinion he may as well be dancing round a fire curing people with homemade potions.

a perfect example of another simpleton who thinks that religion makes people act in a socially responsible way and is unable to comprehend that some people do the right thing purely because its the right thing to do not because they think they will end up in "heaven".

according to the bible homosexuality is "evil" and god destroyed sodom blah blah blah ,so I guess that means if I go out and kill some gays I'm being "good" ....oh wait hang on a second we have gay bishops ,priests etc now dont we ... so god was wrong ?

Honestly you have to have the mind of a child to not see through the joke that is religion , its just a laughable extremely weak attempt to explain the world and life created in a time when we did not have the abilities or scientific knowledge to explain them and as time goes on descends further into hypocrisy and fairy tales.

Apparently my comment didn't get past the moderator. Was that because I urge everyone to complain to Ofcom? Channel 4 shame on you.

This isn't 'THOUGHT' it's personal prejudice.

you've never really experienced deep mental illness.You are a danger to work with the mentally ill with your twisted ignorant judgemental blaming view of an illness which is mostly as self inflicted as cancers,asthma and alzheimer's.I can hear you have never experienced yourself as mentally ill.If you did you would change your views completely realising how ignorant you are.Your views and Christian judgements are a million miles away from the loving acceptance of Jesus.You are bigoted and arrogant and puffed up with your sureness of being right.It is YOU who is stuck in self centred pride,not those who have developed a serious life-threatening illness such as clinical depression.Give up your counselling,we are not talking about self-centred people who feeling a bit sorry for themselves.We are talking about an all consuming overwhelming state of hopeless despair and grief.I hope it never happens to you as your self righteous blame and faith will be helpless against it,as it would against cancer,epilepsy or alzheimer's.

Apologies for going off track but I think the following should quite interesting for the sheeple contributing to this forum:
1) Hundreds of years before Jesus, according to the Mithraic religion, three Wise Men of Persia came to visit the baby savior-god Mithra, bring him gifts of gold, myrrh and frankincense.

2) Mithra was born on December 25 as told in the “Great Religions of the World”, page 330; “…it was the winter solstice celebrated by ancients as the birthday of Mithraism’s sun god”.

3) According to Mithraism, before Mithra died on a cross, he celebrated a “Last Supper with his twelve disciples, who represented the twelve signs of the zodiac.

4) After the death of Mithra, his body was laid to rest in a rock tomb.

5) Mithra had a celibate priesthood.

6) Mithra ascended into heaven during the spring (Passover) equinox (the time when the sun crosses the equator making night and day of equal length).
Christians often comment that parts of the Koran are plagiarised from the bible...but it is obvious that a lot of the christian myths came from other religions.

I have just viewed the film, and cannot believe the smug "Ivory Tower" beliefs of this man, how absolutely disgusting that he can dismiss the appalling suffering of millions of people, Christians and non Christians in such a callous,cavalier fashion, and suggest that a faith in God will cure your, or indeed my depression, absolutely shameful, thank goodness his outdated, outmoded, and downright insulting views are not the norm.

I agree with most of the others absolute tosh!!! you dont know my story but ive had more damage done by so called "caring Christains " Like " Oh hes had some breakdowns" come to church, instant healing, Once i went to a mixed race church in London and one of the DEACONS 9as the berks liked to be called0 took
me forward for prayers etc, when finished
said " you will never have another Breakdown, 4 weeks later , I had a massive one !!!!I was brought up in a God fearing family, my mum was a church organist, but if you go to "Christian meetings" half the time they talk about having "Sinfull thoughts" and rubbbish like that, tHIS VIDEO shOUL BE TAKEN DOWN!!!

Bowden's position on mental illness is patently false and will cause harm and perhaps death to people who believe him. This is irresponsible and deplorable. I, and others I know, have dealt with depression and anxiety for many years. Would Bowden ask a person with a broken leg to simply pray about it, and blame them for insufficient faith if they did not heal properly or developed complications as a result of lack of treatment?

It is clear from the number of dislikes that most people would consider you a bigot, Malcolm.

I'm a Christian of 35 years standing..... I feel sorry for you Mr Bowen and your idiotic views...God bless all of you who suffer from depression and may you find strength in Gods all encompassing love and care.

Rethink have put in a complaint to Ofcom about this which I absolutely agree with. It's not just a question of causing offence, which it surely does, but this will cause real harm. Depression is a life-threatening illness claiming thousands of lives each year. Promoting these vile comments is thoroughly irresponsible. Just because someone is religious should not give them a cover to make attacks against specifically named groups. This film is discriminatory on grounds of disability and that is against the broadcasting code. It was shown before the watershed at a time when young people would be likely to watch and it contained no accurate information or access to help to minimise the likelihood of harm being caused. As for freedom of speech - we don't have unlimited freedom of speech, there are laws against hate speech and abusive and threatening words, and there are codes for broadcasting, press and advertising. I expect that Channel 4 also have their own codes and standards which this must breach and if it doesn't, why watch Channel 4? Religious people don't fall outside any of those rules, they have to abide by them the same as anyone else. Malcolm Bowden will probably always believe that the earth goes round the sun and hold offensive beliefs about schizophrenia, but that doesn't mean that responsible broadcasters and editors have to give him a prime-time slot to attack vulnerable groups and send his disgusting dangerous rubbish into our living rooms where it will cause real harm.

Over the past two weeks, there has been much critism of Malcolm Bowden.
I believe it shouldn't have appeared on 4 thought; but should have been addressed exclusively to a Christian audience.I have taken the trouble to read what he said,not just on the brief words he spoke on 4 thought, but also on his "Website"
Unless the reader has a good grasp of scripture, the reader will not understand, what he is getting at. Many non-Christians read the Bible for various reasons: to prove a point, to rubbish someone who has a different view to themselves. Unless you are a committed Christians and have read the Bible daily for many years, having a motive for getting to know God better,and allowing the truths of scripture to mold you, and not to have an agenda and want the Word of God to confirm your ideas, such study would be almost fruitless. I say almost because what you have read and having stored it in your memory may come back later to you,this could be helpful.
While I do not endorse all Malcolm is saying, I believe there is an element of truth, in what he has to say. But his remarks should have been not for a general audience but for a Christian one

On the contrary, Here in Ireland studies are beginning to show that Religion, does in fact appear to be one of the main causes of depression. Certainly, in my own experience, I have seen people forced to attend religious services by their parents, 'because that's what our parents made us do!' OK I am anti-religion, but that does not detract from my belief that everyone has the right to believe in what they personally wish, and not indoctrinated, or forced by other people to follow a different course. I might point out that I know right from wrong, but it didn't need religion to teach me those attributes.

Firstly, it is hard to judge a subject from such a short clip, which this certainly was. Malcolm Bowden is a believer in Christ of the Bible, and if a person doesn't claim a faith in Christ, he will be more apt to place his reliance on self. Jesus taught that self-denial rather than self-affirmation was the proper way to approach God. In fact, 2 Timothy 3:2 says that people will be lovers of themselves in the last days. Romans 12:3 states "For by the grace given me I say to every one of you: Do not think of yourself more highly than you ought, but rather think of yourself with sober judgment, in accordance with the measure of faith God has given you." When we put our trust in the Lord, all our needs have been met in the Person of the Lord Jesus Christ and THIS is where our identity ought to come from. self-love is at the very heart of the sin nature, and it is exactly for this reason that Jesus taught us to love God and love others. Nowhere in Scripture are we commanded to love ourselves. The injunction to "love your neighbor as yourself" is hardly an exception. Rightly interpreted, it means to love others with the same devotion that we selfishly put forth in pursuing our own well being. So, depression comes from a wrong focus and expectation. For my expectation should be in God alone. Ps. 62:5 "My soul, wait thou only upon God, for my expectation is from him." That's where real mental health is found. So if you haven't put your trust in the Lord and His Word, this will all be hogwash, but if you do, you will have life and peace forevermore.

People posting negative comments on here should read Malcolm's book. As a person who used to suffer from depression, I can tell you that his book helped me more than anything else has ever done, and I've had plenty of 'counselling!' You can read my comments on Malcolm's website http://homepage.ntlworld.com/malcolmbowden/comments.htm.
Malcolm makes it quite clear that True Biblical Counselling is really only for Christians, yet his foundational premise holds good for all: namely that so-called 'mental illness' is a product of pride and self-pity. The sufferer may not be aware of this, but if he humbles himself, and accepts the premise, he will be able to escape from the prison he has made for himself. It really is as simple as that. To his detractors, I would like to issue the following caution: history shows us that many great inventors and discoverers were ridiculed at first, but later, their genius was revealed when their ideas were accepted and put into practice. Who would have thought that hand-washing in hospitals was once decried as a foolish idea, insulting to doctors? Who would have believed how long it took for people to recognise that cholera was a water-borne disease? Those who believe in and trust the psychiatric profession should give this a viewing: http://www.brasschecktv.com/videos/health-and-medical-1/making-a-killingthe-untold-story-of-psychotropic-drugging.html. It may make you change your minds that 'mental illnesses' are all documented and bona fide. Thank you, Malcolm for your courage and visionary pioneering work, and thank you Channel 4 for allowing him his 1 and 3/4 minutes of airtime to publicise his unique approach! People who want to shut him down - do you really want to stifle all debate? Do you really want a society where only politically correct views are aired? Should not everyone get a fair hearing? We can all make up our minds when all the information is made available. When information is suppressed, we are living in a police state or under a totalitarian regime.

Utter tosh. This man may have provided counselling for people suffering from depression but I strongly doubt that he has even one iota of an idea of what it is to actually FEEL depression. I'm happy to hear that his faith gives him comfort however speaking in such a dismissive fashion about mental health is damaging and irresponsible. Shame on him.

This is outrageous. I am a Christian and this is a complete travesty of God's love. You would not air this destructive view if it were about homosexuality. You should not air it about mental health.

People like this instead of making people think what a nice caring person from a religion that believes in a caring god, think what a hateful and spiteful nasty man. Depression is not a competition as to who has endured the worst and people must stop thinking of it as only happeining to boastful and proud people. This man's comments are the best advert for athiesm I have ever seen, and as a well balanced person who has been through depression and come out the other side I think let him continue to preach his hate, but a few years ago they may have been the trigger that pushed a delicate mind already struggling to find anything positive about themsleves over the edge. He should hang his head in shame as I thought with him being a Christian he would have thought that only God could judge people, but he seems to be doing a pretty good job of condemning others!

Views that are just plain wrong.

very true but it can be difficult

Mr Bowden is showing the arrogance that he criticises by using the word 'truth' all the time when it is just his opinion. His anecdotal accounts are not to be taken as evidence and he simply doesn't understand the neurological and social issues connected with depression. People need real help, not empty rhetoric.

it is one thing to use faith like positive thinking and as "self help" but to use it like this is anachronism. True christianity sounds more like absolute christianity and I cannot think of anything more depressing. The God protocol is cheap and the idea of man convenient to creationist ideals.
Try this, Jesus Christ has a Roman mandate in the legal affirmation King of the Jews. The mandate is real and faith of the kind which would deny progress is therefore obscene.

Yet another in a long line of delusional fundamentalist Christians who believes their own nonsense i.e. "BREAKDOWNS ARE GOOD FOR YOU" (BAGFY) He dismisses out of hand science and medical advances for his own interpretations of primitive Bronze Age superstitious biblical mythology and his nonsensical beliefs as to the causes of illness. This is nothing more than modern Christian charismatic snake oil quackery. He will be telling us next that the Sun goes round the Earth.....

I did not see Malcolm Bowden when he spoke on 4TV but as one who wrote the book "Breakdowns are good for you" with him and as one who suffered greatly from depression whilst training for the Christian Ministry perhaps I mignt be allowed to have a word. When suffering from my depression I prayed continually that God would take away this awful depression and give me His peace and joy which I had experienced previously. The answer to my prayer came some time later after my continual pleas for healing. God's answer was straight and to the point."Listen to me Robert. When you came to my Son Jesus in faitn and repentance, did I not give you everythint, forgiveness, love, joy, peace, patience, gentleness, goodness, longsuffering, and faith? Don't now keep asking me for peace and joy and release from your depression, but thank me that you have them as my free gift to you and you shall have them. This stopped me in my tracks and I realised that far from belieivng God I was acting as an unbeliever. I then immediateliy began to thank God ky heavenly Father that He had given me all these things. Immediately my sinful, fleshly nature rose up in rebelliong and cried out "Nonsense. You dont't feel loving and peaceful and free from depression. I then learned that I had a real enemy within me who was always trying to talk me down. I it was then that I learned to talk to my Self and not let Self talk to me. You often hear that the first sign of madness is talking to one self. This is nonsense. The first sign of madness it letting self to me instead of me falking to self. So I immediately said, "Shut up Self. I have been listening far too long to you and all you do is talk me down into the hell of depression. Now I am going to talk to you. Stop trying to talk me down into unbelief. God has given me all these things including freedom from the hell of depression." I then turned to God and began to thank Him that because of His grace I now had His love, His peace, His joy, his goodness and His freedom from depression." Believe me it was a hard battle for flesh never gave up. But I persisted in thanksgiving to God for His love, peace, joy etc. Now God does not let us off so easily. Do I really believe He had given me these things even thought I was still not feeling free from depression? He was tasting my faith. Was I really now believing His word or was I going to give up and yield to the Word of my Self? This battle went on for a great while until one day I suddenly felt filled with love, joy and peace and my depression had gone. I tell you I leaped with joy and ever since have never let self talk to me, but every time it tries to talk me down I told him to buzz off and that I was not going to listen to him any longer. When I told this to a woman's meeting I had been invited to speak to on depression there was laughter and expressions of "I alway thought the first sign of madness was to talk to one self but now I see that I must learn to talk to self and not listen to self or allow it to talk me down." When I was working as a Doctor in a Mental Hospital, one of the Consultants said to me, "Law, we can't heal these people all we can do is to help them to live as happily as possibly." His words stuck to me and in time I asked myself, what as we trying to heal? The mind! But what was the mind? One has a brain becuase one can open up the skull and see the brain and we can operate on the brain. But what and where was the mind? Is there such a thing as the mind which we can dissect out and study? I asked this question when speaking to a large body of doctors, clergy, nurses, psychiatrists etc. Immediately a lady Psychiatrist got up and said "Of course we have a mind." I asked her how she knew she had a mind if she could not dissect it out as one could with the brain. This stopped her in her tracks and she rather lamely said, "you can't know you have a mind." I replied that I knew she had a mind because she was exhibiting it to me now by her behaviour and by what she was saying. Immediately sensed agreement with what I said from all who were present and they were eager to know what I would say next. I then went on to say that the mind is only seen by outward behaviour so mental illness was not a physical illness such as a brain tumour but simply bad behaviour. In communist atheistic Russia a person who prayed to God was considered to be mentally ill and was immediateliy confined to a mental hospital. So mental illness can be defined as odd behaviour odd in terms of what society as a whole considered to be normal. So when a person presents himself or herself as menally ill, all they are doing is presenting themselves as someone who was considered as behaving oddly. We than must ask, " Why is he/she behaving oddly? Are they sitting on a drawing pin?, have they a stomach ache or suffering from some physical illness or are they just behaving badly, badly in terms of what societ considered to be good or bad behaviour. If after medical attention no pysical reason could be found for their bad behaviour then for some reason other than medical they were behaving oddly. When I realised this I then saw that my patients were not ill in the acceptable meaning of the term but were self-centred, had no purpose of meaing to life and who were behaving irresponsibly or in Christisn terms, sinfully. it was this irresponsible, sinful behaviour that intrigued me most because it had ot be confronted and challenged to accept the fact that he was behaving irresponsibly and to repent of that behvaiour and begin to stop behaving irreseponsibly and act responsibly. I told them that they could not help their situaltion but they could help their reaction to that situation. Needless to say there were some who resented being told they were behaving badly but once it had been pointed out to them, consciente took over and sooner or later they came to their senses. I showed them that the root cause of their bad behaviour was self- pity "I want my own way and I am behaving badly because I cannot have my own way. To my astonishment, the moment they accepted the truth that they were behaving badly and that it was their own fault, they first felt immediate relief and then immediatel healing. After all if it was their own fault then they could to something about it and not feel imprisoned and trapped by some terrifying illness. Many admitted that they knew it was their own fault and now that they had been 'found out' they were only too glad to put things right. One man whose wife had counseled was so thrilled at what I told her and who had felf immediated release phoned her husband who live on the west coast of America urging him to drop everytning and come over to England and be counseled by me. This he did. I have forgotten the details of the discussion but it resolve itself in his saying that he would find it very difficult to do what I had told him. He would really need someone to help him. I then got on to Jesus Christ and told him that God had sent His Son into the world to save sinners and if he trusted in Him he would find the help he was looking for. All this he rejected. I then said, "Well then, have you got a personal friend, your sife, perhaps who would always be with you, by your side to halp you? He did not respond but said he would think about what I had told him. This he did, and he returned saying, "I see I need Christ could you help me to find Him?" This I glsdly did and he returned to America a new man. I am still in touch with him and his wife. (Please note that a medical examination had been done to see if there was any medical reason for their behaviour. Not every patient needs a physician but every patient needs a good counselor) Many of the criticisms given by those who heard Malcolm Bowden I have also suffered but our book "Breakdowns are good for you," has only had one medical criticism and that was my not being fait to Tamar was was raped by her brother. 2Samuel 1-13. One woman who came for counseling flew into a great rage that I was sugggesting that her 'mental illness was due to self-pity." She went storming off to my Churchwarden's large house where she was staying whilst being counseled and shouted out that whe was not going to stand for that and was g0ing to leave. My Church warden and his wife calmed her down and said, "I see he has hit a large nail on your head." The next morning, having thought things through she came to me for further counseling ahd left greatly pleased with what she had been told. Perhaps many of those who were enraged by Malcolm Bowden's one minute talk also had nails hit by him on their heads and are resisiting the call to recognise their odd behaviour and refusing to repent of it and find that peace which passes all understanding which Christ alone can give but only to repentant sinners.

Firstly I would like to implore viewers of this website not to take Malcolm Bowden's views as representative of all of the Christian community. The Church acknowledges the existence of depression as described by the DSM-IV(TR) or the ICD-10 classifications. There are several books written to help Christians struggling with depression that are based upon sound clinical, medical and psychological science. Kathryn Hermes book Surviving Depression: A Catholic Approach is just one a quick search on Amazon brought up. Being Christian does not mean ignoring modern science. Modern science and the Church can both be inspired by God. For those people suffering with the debilitating symptoms of depression there are also many secular sources of help which are not contrary to the teaching of the church. Seek help via multiple sources, involve your GP, visit websites like www.mind.org; www.depressionalliance.org. Counselling and drug therapy work well together so seek out counselling but ensure your therapist is accredited to one of the professional bodies such as the British Association of Counselors and Psychotherapists. Please do not take the 'pull your socks up' approach that Malcolm is advocating. His views are representative of a lot of people ignorant of the biological, psychological and sociological evidence behind the condition and I must say is now somewhat outmoded. For the Christians out there who are depressed and dismayed at Malcolm's comments just know that God loves you and knows you do not wish for this. Seek and you shall find help, it will take time but you can get better. Do NOT blame yourselves. Pray and follow the advice of qualified practitioners in medicine and psychotherapy.

This is the most ineffable ball twaddle it has ever been my misfortune to come across. How the hell could belief in a nonexistent deity be a cure for anything? This man should really keep his uneducated, ill informed and frankly disgusting opinions to himself based as they are in ignorance of the subject matter and without a shred of empirical scientific evidence to support them.

Unbelievable! You allowed this drivel to be aired? What qualifications does this man have in mental health? NON
I could say much more but most of it would be rude and others have put it much more eloquently.
You are a dangerous man Mr Bowden and shouldn't be allowed a voice on this subject. Jim Jones knew what was best for his fellow christians and look where that ended up.

I am a both a counsellor and a depression sufferer. Your ignorance and lack of compassion astonishes me. I think Christ would be disgusted with your ideas. Depression is a complex genetic, epigenetic, environmental, social and biological problem. THERE ARE LITERALLY HUNDREDS OF PEER REVIEWED SCIENTIFIC PAPERS WHICH SUPPORT THIS VIEW. You only make things worse for depression sufferers by placing guilt on them with your distorted ideas. Shame on you.

I really would suggest that Malcolm get down on his knees and thank God he hasn't any idea of what he is talking about. Ah, to only have such blissful ignorance. What a blessing it must be for him !

AS THE SPEAKER IN THIS BROADCAST, THERE WAS NO TIME TO GIVE ANY EXPLANATIONS OF HOW I HAD COME TO THESE CONTROVERSIAL VIEWS. I HAVE GIVEN THESE ON MY WEBSITE AT -
www.mbowden.info/bibcoun1.htm

Well, learning to love others and to remove a self centered perspective is a good way of dealing with depression. But, this person does not consider that depression takes many different forms, both reactive and androgynous. Reactive depression to a death in the family is a natural response, and other forms are out of a person's control. How can he say that no true Christian gets depression? Under such a statement he would call Mother Teresa, who gave her entire life to the service of others but suffered from depression, a fraud.

As a Christian, Mom and professional in the mental health field. this is dangerous. While situational depression can be helped by faith, true Clinical Depression and Bi Polar Depressive Disorders are true illnesses. This narrow minded view adds to society's failure to recognize depression as a true illness. I hope you research your viewpoints a bit more and check into true depression - that which never goes away , can not be cured and is only helped by medication.