4thought.tv

Jesus wasn't white.

What a bigot.

The Rev. Charles Raven questions rhetorically whether we need an Asian Jesus (among others). Jesus was born in the Mddle East and grew up there. So, he was an Asian - and probably looked like an Arab.

In this film the speaker suggested that if Christians should have to consider a female God, then they should have to consider a black God, or an Asian God. Surely, given the place of Jesus' birth, it is far more difficult to conceive a pale-skinned Jesus than any other kind!

Jesus and Christ are two different concepts to me. Jesus the man is a historical figure, rooted in a time and place with a message of love over law. Christ, as St. Paul suggests, has been since the beginning. It is this Christ that transcends time and space and place, whose characteristics as pain-bearer and love-maker can be seen in men, women, places, events throughout the ages. God as female, Christ as woman enriches our relationship with and understanding of God. I don’t think it has anything to do with, nor negates historical fact.

"Do we need to have an Asian Jesus?"

Hmmmm…not to be pedantic, but what Christians refer to as The Holy Land (variously Israel, Palestine, Judea) is, in fact, in West Asia. Can't miss it. Get to what we used to call Byzantion, cross the Bosphorous, voila Asia Minor.

"God could not be a woman, because that's not the way he revealed Himself to us in the Bible".

Well, speaking as an atheist who's perfectly happy to play Devil's Advocate, if a supreme being wants to influence a society, it would do so in a manner that would be accepted and understood by the dominant force in that society. Given that men hold the majority of social, political and economic power (even now, but more so in Roman-era Judea), surely it's common sense that it would present itself and its earthly form as male.

Utter nonsense with self-serving circular logic.

Jesus couldn't be Black or Asian? Where does this guy think the Bible is supposed to have taken place?! Christianity shouldn't be re-invented? It and all religions are re-hashes of the same stories! Reminds me of the woman I overheard being shocked that Mary had been "on holiday" to Effesis! Presumably she shought the Bible had taken place in Belfast!

I wholeheartedly agree with the assessment put forward by Rev. Raven. This opinion may not be popular in some quarters (including sadly some parts of the church) however it is no less true for it. The idea of God being a woman is simply an aberration of the truth as revealed in the word of God - the Bible. The obsession in some quarters to find something that fits our modern age or suits are own politically correct sensibilities is a wholly weak argument.

I was raised in a Baha'i family, and I believe in the Baha'i Faith. I wouldn't know if you've heard of it but, its fundamental beliefs are the oneness of God, the oneness of religion and the oneness of Mankind. Put those beliefs together and they say that all the world's major religions, Islam, Christianity, Hinduism, Judaism etc. all derived from one source; God was that source and there has only ever been one God. All the holy books of His Manifestations, the Bible, the Quran, these are all part of God's continuing revelation to lead Humanity on the right path.

Baha'is believe that God is unknowable in His essence and, although we refer to Him in text and word as male, we believe we should not imagine an image of Him or question his gender, rather we should just strive to attain His attributes. Personally, for whatever one of the many manifestations of God that one may believe in, I think there is no need or benefit from questioning what skin colour/sexuality that person was during their mortal life on Earth, rather should we focus on the teachings which they brought about that were destined for the benifit of Humankind.

Jesus WAS Asian! Does Rev Charles Raven think that people from Palestine are European? What a faux pas! I'm amazed that this got through Channel 4's editing process.

sigh, when you listen to the shepard, he is only going to speak the religious rubbish that he wants his sheep to hear. These opinions are based around vulnerability, fear and control. is god a Woman... who cares ...they make their gods how they want to see them. We no longer live in a religious empire, where religion is the prime directive, franky religion has also attempted to change with the times, loosing their own values in the process. There are now many belief systems in this day and age that have practical aplicability, Satanism, Humanism, etc. Personally im a Satanist. For the human race to excell, religion must die

jesus said that whoever saw Him saw the Father. He told his disciples to call God their Father.

A last! A man who believes the Bible on this point. Well done vicar!!

god doesn't exist.

It's equally blasphemous to consider God a man. God, if there is one, is above gender.

once i saw the first video talking about God I realised- why is God always represented as a "He" ..... In all religions!

Im muslim and in Islam God was never a human being (in Christianity I understand it was believed God turned into a human or something *Rubbish at RE)- yet we still reprsenet God as a "he".
In my opinion God is neither a "he" or a "she"- which is why I always say "God" (or Allah).....

Where as in Christianity i understand why christians say "he"- because God was believed to come to life as a male- (am I right? not sure :s )

But in general- in my opinion- God is neither a "He" or a "She"- nor a "it"

Im an atheist but i obviously understand the concept of god , and indeed
have studied many religions. hence my decision to be an atheist.
as for god being male or female i would imagine if god did exist ,
this super being would be far beyond the sexes spiritualy and intellectually.

Quite frankly isn't this whole discussion completely and utterly redundant. As an atheist it bugs me much more that people are still believing such silly stories. As far as I can see the world would be a much better place if we could stop avoiding the fact that adults are believing in and basing their lives on fairy tales.
However putting that to one side for a second and answering the actual question, no the Abrahamic god isn't a female. Or a male for that matter, in fact, as far as the story goes, it's a deity. There is no need for a deity to be either male or female. It's magic!

I really think Charles Raven has missed the point. I don’t think people who look for a female God would say Jesus was female. Like lots of Christians he put up a straw man to attack rather than address the heart of the issue.

In Christianity and Judaism angels are neither male nor female they are both. It could be said when we are resurrected we will have spiritual bodies that are like the angels both male and female. Wouldn’t it then follow that God is also male and female.

If you believe in the Trinity why can’t the Holy Spirit be female? In Judaism there is Wisdom or Sophia which is a female aspect of God and Jesus was familiar with it.

To Ivan I would say “have you seen QI this week. I think it was on “I”. They stated the historical truth that it took hundreds of years for the New Testament to be agreed upon. I thought that the Council of Nicaea in 325 agreed what books were in the New Testament, it didn’t it wasn’t until nearly the end of that century that agreement was reached.

We regard to the Old Testament it wasn't until about 200 AD that the books of the Old Testament were agreed by Judaism. However for Christianity no agreement was ever reached and with different churches including or excluding different books. There were lots of different versions, in fact there always seems to be lots of different versions. This is why sometime quotes of the Old Testament in the New Testament no longer agree with our version of the Old Testament because scholars have decided that our version is the more original version than that quoted in the New Testament.

Also there are lots of versions of the books of the New Testament and scholars have to decide which ones are the more reliable and this changes over time and so different bible versions can have different texts not only different styles.