4thought.tv

This makes me feel glad. It helped me understand the speaker's point of view.

I am a vegetarian and proud of it! However I do believe that everyone has the right to make up their own minds.
I am a vegetatrian because I respect animals and do not want to eat their flesh, but that is my personal choice. Animals deserve respect and a right to a happy healthy life.

This makes me feel glad.

It is always good to hear the case for compassion put in a measured, calm way. What makes me sad is the virulence of people opposed to such a simple principle. It is not a question of whether animals should have the same rights as humans but whether it is unreasonable to expect humans to treat all sentient beings with respect and consideration.

Do not agree that vegetarianism is a foundation of Christianity - becasue I do not believe in God creator of the world and its many inhabitants.

I beleive that vegetarianism should be at the foundation of humanism, and basically life.

My main problem with eating animals is with intensive farming and unnatural breading and 'playing god/nature' through selective breeding.

I think ideally there should be a balance between respect to animals and diet. I have been a vegetarian for 14 years because our society has no respect for animals, they are simply units within a capatalist economy, as are the cheap labour which are paid pittance to keep them alive and fattening.

May I suggest that you read Marina Lewycka's Two Caravans; who owns the earth? who owns the plants on the earth? who owns the animals and creatures on the earth? and who owns the people on the earth?

Slaves, Cotton and Molasses.

Human beings abuse animals because they can. If aliens landed on earth and and treated us as animals are treated, possibly only then would those who are not vegetarians understand what we do to animals, ie imprison, murder and then eat them. I thank God I'm vegan and, at the age of 67, still a blood donor.

I am not religious but I welcome Reverend Linzey's ideas on violence and animal cruelty. I have always been convinced that the best moral code that anyone can live by is to not knowingly harm others. I cannot see why animals, especially vertebrates with nervous systems so similar to ours, should not be covered by this simple code. Yes, perhaps humans are more intelligent but why does that mean they are more important? Are mentally disabled people less important that the Chairman of Mensa? Or new born babies less important than adults? Of course not and we can easily see that to think so would be morally abhorant. So I believe the same argument can be extrapolated to animals. Animals feel pain and vertebrate nervous systems are so similar to ours it seems hugely arrogant to think that they do not have any sentience. I honestly believe that in the future humans will look back at the way we treat factory farmed animals and find it as disgusting and inconceivable in the same way we now look back at human slavery in the 19th Century. They are both the manipulation of another life just because one has more power than the other. We instinctively know this is wrong and I hope that human consciousness will continue to evolve to a point where we can fully understand our place in the world and how little difference there is between us and the rest of the animal kingdom.

It reinforced what I already believed.

Can you ever imagine a time, when not all humans had equal rights? Today, we are shocked to think that this was so, and see the horror and absurdity of such thoughts. One day,( and this may take some time) it will be normal for ALL animals which includes humans to have the same rights because we will appreciate the sapient and sentient nature of all beings.

I don't understand the speaker's point of view at all.

Why did God gave human's four canines teeth, what! to eat vegetables! if that was the case, then all Animals having canine teeth should become a vegan and Reverend Andrew Linzey should present his case to one hungry Lion and the outcome will be so apparent that the lion would say to him "nice to meat U gorgeous, lets get down to digestion thank you very much for being my favourite menu and your case was more fruitfull then veg.

How naive of Reverand Andrew Linzey. Whereas I abhor factory farming and any treatment of animals that lacks a degree of compassion and welfare, I recognise that death is a neccessary element for anythingand EVERYTHING to live. What he fails to recognise is that vegetarianism destroys WHOLE ecosystems! It devours them. Any and every field was once a complex and dynamic ecosystem supporting environmental niches and habitats for flora and fauna that change over time. These habitats would have to be ripped up and 'homogenised' to allow cropping. What of the life that was wasted in this clearing process? Does he spare a thought for that? What of the animals forced to move on to pastures new, with its attendant knock-on effect of increasing competition for the remaining ecological niches? More animals fighting for a diminishing habitat means hunger and combat. It is the way of the competition of life. With monocropping you facilitate swarms and plagues of parasites - something all but impossible in complex habitats where ecological specialisations form invisible boundaries - so you need pesticides and insecticides to control populations. These kill indiscriminately and poison not only the insects, but the land itself. Excess washes in to the watersystem....as does topsoil. With the plough, topsoil is exposed to the elements, and washed in to the aquatic environment, suffocating life. Thus the soil - devoid of its 'natural fertilisers' of animal faeces, rotting vegetation and so forth, needs fertilising. Modern fertilisers require oil - lots of it. Oil extraction is not 'ethical' nor mindful of life in the least. And these fertilisers are eventually leached in to the river system. I could go on - but you get the picture.

I have two simple questions: 1) Do animals suffer? 2) Does it matter if they do?

The answer to the first seems pretty clear. Your answer to the second says a lot more about you than your diet.

It reinforced what I already believed.

I ask readers to read these wise words and reflect on them.
by Walt Whitman (1819-1892)
From SONG OF MYSELF

"I THINK I COULD TURN AND LIVE WITH ANIMALS,
THEY ARE SO PLACID AND SELF-CONTAINED,
I STAND AND LOOK AT THEM LONG AND LONG.
THEY DO NOT SWEAT AND WHINE ABOUT THEIR CONDITION,
THEY DO NOT LIE AWAKE IN THE DARK AND WEEP FOR THEIR SINS,
THEY DO NOT MAKE ME SICK DISCUSSING THEIR DUTY TO GOD;
NOT ONE IS DISSATISFIED, NOT ONE IS DEMENTED WITH
THE MANIA OF OWNING THINGS,
NOT ONE KNEELS TO ANOTHER, NOR TO HIS KIND THAT
LIVED THOUSANDS AGO,
NOT ONE IS RESPECTABLE OR UNHAPPY OVER THE WHOLE
EARTH."

Even Shakespeare made mention of "mans inhumanity to man." For we are a species out of control. We do not have a breeding season, as do most of the animal kingdom and consequently over breeding this planet, we wantonly go to war, no, man is beneath contempt for his arrogance in assuming we hold sway over this planet and I for one, exult in the fact I am a Vegan and have been for 35 years.

This makes me feel glad and humbled.

My conscience has spoken to me many times throughout my life upon this matter, and I have now resolved that although I enjoy eating meat I will do so no longer after 31st dec 2010. In the past I have tried to rationalise things and avoided factory bred produce, but now concede that even the most humane farming practices do not justify the eating of meat. I will no longer eat fish, given the depletion of fish stocks and the cruelty often involved in the fishing industry. I will still have to prepare meals for my family who are meat eaters, but I know there will be benefits to my own health. This is one christian you've helped to finally make the right decision. Thank you

This makes me feel happy. It reinforced what I already believed.

I agreed with everything Rev. Linzey said so concisely on Channel 4 tonight. A careful reading of Genesis shows that it was not God's original perfect will for us to slaughter animals, and that prior to the Fall (into sin) there was and would have been no killing. God later allowed meat eating, but to be vegetarian is a valid Christian option for those who want to live God's best.

YES ANIMALS DO DESERVE MORE RIGHTS THEY ARE THE INNOCENT ONE`S IN THE WORLD AND CAN`T DEFEND THEMSELVES.

Animals have the same rights as humans? Animals are not persons. They cannot have rights without also having duties and responsibilities, and being liable for lawbreaking.

I keep a kitten. I also have the right to vote in elections. Should my kitten? She could not exercise that right herself, and so I would have to do so once for myself, and once for her. That's effectively two votes for me.

I fail to see the difference between a concentration camp and a place animals are sent to be killed.

Although I don't believe in God, I agree with you 100% ! :)

This makes me feel glad.

Really good to see a Christian perspective that honours the value and protection of other species as integral to the creed. I have had many arguments with Christians who put forwards exactly the same anti-animal rights arguments you mentioned in your own dissection of Christian attitudes. It's fantastic to see a member of any monotheist religion acknowledging the right of animals to live unmolested by the will of man who, after all, is *not* God him - or her - self.

Yes, tell the hungry bushmen of africa that they shouldn't kill to eat. Give animals the right to vote, why don't we? Most people on earth do not have ANY rights. How about fighting for their rights too.
Does a Lion think of or even consider the rights of its prey? I don't think so.
Jesus was not a vegetarian, he could have enjoyed just a salad or greens on occassion, he NEVER ate pork. He was a jew and ate Kosher meat. Nothing wrong in being vegetarian, for most its a choice and nothing to do with animal rights.

This makes me feel glad.

at last someone talking sence

It's not about rights, but about humanity, compassion and empathy. Of course animals don't have the same "rights" as humans - that's a term that only applies within our own human society. But as moral beings we have choices and responsibilities - in fact this is an aspect of humanity we pride ourselves on. We accept as a society that we have a duty to protect the weak and vulnerable against cruelty and exploitation, and there is no rational reason not to extend this to all sentient beings.

This makes me feel glad and happy. It reinforced what I already believed.

This man is wise, and understands the true meaning of the Bible.
You have a good hear, Rev. Linzey, and follow in Christ's footsteps. Christ, too, faced challenges and opposition as he challenged norms and strived for what is right and good. Have a wonderful Christmas time, Rev. Linzey.

Should animals have the same rights as humans?
Yes! Completely, they are thinking feeling beings and so just because they can not communicate in the same language we do, why should they be punished?!?

A meat free diet appears to be the best way forward. Not only does the meat (and dairy) industry raise serious ethical issues, it also contributes significantly to deforestation around the world. It's just so resource intensive. Many 'animals' bred for meat are given pitifully short lives often in excruciating conditions. People should think about this when tucking into their christmass turkey. Humans are a selfish species and rarely question the things they do. This is the 21st century for goodness sake, not the stone age. We have alternatives to fur clothing yet people still wear fur. We have great protein alternatives yet people still eat meat. We have computer games and other forms of modern entertainment, yet people still participate in bloodsports. WHY? We should enjoy life of course, but we should'nt exist without principles. The meat industry is very powerful, and no matter how strong the vegetarian argument, meat is thrown at us from every direction. Adverts, cooking shows, fast food restaurants, schools. It's everywhere, and not everyone has the mental strength to go against the grain. Pathetic myths are also propagated by those who gain financially from meat production, but as a weight training vegetarian for 8 yrs I'm convinced I'm on the right side of the argument.

Steve
Bridlington

I am 75 and have been vegetarian for 58 years. The most compelling arguments for being vegetarian are:
1 to avoid the cruelty of animal farming and unnecessary killing
2.because eating animal products to the extent that we do is unsustainable. We rob the poor in other counttries of their food to feed cattle and other animals in the west.
3. Scientific research over the last 40 years has shown, not only that vegetarian and vegan diets are adequate, but that, if based on balanced natural wholefoods, they can improve health, preventing some cancers and other serious problems.
Mike Maybury

Vegetarianism/veganism is based on compassion and love so i believe the world would be less violent. The meat Industry puts animals across as brainless machines with no emotions and worth to justify eating them but this is so far from the truth. When you discover the truth you will realise that animals do have rights and they are not ours to eat, wear etc.
We dont need meat to live a healthy life. ''Nothing will benefit human health and increase the chances of survival of life on earth as much as the evolution to a vegetaroan diet'' Albert Einstein. Being a Vegetarian lead me onto being a Vegan(there is cruelty in the dairy and egg industry and bad for our health)and finding a spiritual way of life, discovering real happiness and wisdom. Overall it has made me and is continuing to make me a better person. Vegetarians/vegans are not missing out-our food is exciting, diverse and compassionate.

I'M A VEGETARIAN AND REV. LINZEY'S COMMENTS HAVE MADE ME UNDERSTAND MORE ABOUT BEING A VEGETARIAN. I WOULD REALLY WISH THAT THERE WERE MORE PROFFESIONAL PEOPLE LIKE REV. LINZEY IN THE CHURCH AND IN THE NORMAL WALKS OF LIFE WHO UNDERSTAND THAT IT IS CRUEL TO KILL AND EAT ANIMALS. I BELIEVE THAT ANIMALS DO HAVE RIGHTS, JUST BECAUSE WE CANNOT UNDERTAND THEIR LANGUAGE DOES NOT MEAN THEY HAVE NO FEELINGS.

That question is a no-brainer - of course they should. Look for medlockandtame org uk forward slash swallow dot html and tell me that birds don't grieve. Animal abuse is rife because the law does not protect them.

I eat meat but I spend time sourcing it, buy directly from farms where I know the butcher and animal welfare throughout the process is paramount.
Itnannoys me is that I can't just walk into a shop and expect this. I think laws should be stricter. Imagine if you had to kill that animal yourself rather than cowardly just pick up it's body part in a packet. How would you feel?
There is a lot of ignorance in society with respect to animals and I see a lot of children showing disrespect for wildlife and pets also when there's so much to learn from the animal world.

woohoo veggie dude yay