4thought.tv

Don't like gay marriage? Don't have one, it's as simple as that.

What a pathetically bigoted and outdated view.

Hard to express just how much I disagree with this film

Yes they should. I aren't religious but i believe if a gay couple were in belief of god and so on they should be able to marry in a place of worship. They are just as important as everyone else in the world, they can not help who they fall in love with.

I think the guy who has just appeard on the film needs to drag himself into the 21 century and realise homosexuality is infact normal and same sex couples should be able to get married and have children and raise them just as well as different sex couples !

So from his comment, is it then case that heterosexual couples should not be allowed IVF treatment or have a surrogate if they are unable to conceive naturally as well? What if gay couples were to adopt or foster? I find Anthony's view very narrowminded and it really is a paperthin arguement about why gay people should not get married. Marriage was made by man, and as God apparently gave us free speech, we should be able to change that at our wish.

It's closed minds such at this that make me steer clear of religion. Who's to say that that a gay couple won't provide a loving environment? Just because I'm straight, I am allowed to marry in a church even though I am 100% atheist and yet two people who are, although the same gender cannot? Ignorance like this is just ludicrous. Deeply opposed to this guy.

OMG, I cannot believe that your aired this. Yes I believe in free speech but not when it is clearly sexist, as this was! He clearly doesn't even understand gay relationships; that women can also be gay - the crack about the absent mother. Also, where it is a male-gay couple, the mother is usually involved, but even if she isn't, so what. I am adopted and my parents were and are fantastic. I have a gay daughter and am very afraid for her when I listen to nethadertals like this. I admire the courage of any gay person to come out, when this is what they have to deal with.

Clearly this man does not understand the reality of gay marriage. I've met many people who are adopted by gay parents, and they do not feel isolated or affected at all- surely, orphans are better off with gay parents instead of being neglected in an orphanage or children's home? The state does not have a duty to protect traditions- the government has far more important things to do than impose their own ideals on the personal lives of individuals. If we insists that the Government takes an active role in tradition, what else shall we expect them to do? Tell straight couples what to do in bed? Tell parents how to raise their children? The role of the government is to protect and regulate- not to control harmless aspects of couples personal lives.

What defines Normal!!! Churchs and there congregations are diminishing these days, so why push out and excile gay couples who want to show their commitment and love to one another in church. Didn't god say "love one another as I have loved you". And gay marriage has nothing to do with not giving a child a mother!! Lots of children grow up without mothers, what's important is that they grow up in a loving and stable home.

Such dated and traditional beliefs like these are invalid in todays modern, liberal society.

society is not going to collapse because of gay marriage. this sort of soundbite is nothing more than hot air spouted by people who follow a religion founded in the dark ages.

Personally I feel that marriage & the religions that bond it are out dated. When the religious scribes were first put in place. People died younger & probably were married for 10 years in that time. Compared to now. You are looking at 40 years plus. Any one who is mad enough to bind themselves for this long to one person should be celebrated what ever their sexuality.

As for his comments on children in same sex marriages. What a load of tosh. A stable loving & nurturing family is all that is needed. Its religion that interferes with this by preaching biblical garbage. It's time people drop the shackles of oppressed religions & look for new ways to bond societies in the 21st century.

Why can't homosexual Christians have the right to be married in a place of worship, when they are in love and have true faith within their religion? I've heard many people claim that some teachings within the bible need to be, or have been, altered in modern society; so why can't this? To be quite frank, I find it saddening that people can be so narrow minded in this era, and that this is unjust and unfair. You cannot choose your skin colour or your gender, and you cannot choose your sexuality. You can, however; choose your religion. These people cannot change who they are or their sexuality, and despite the prejudice they may face they still remain truthful to their faith and religion- why shouldn't they be able to marry in their place of worship when they have done nothing wrong?

Anthony McCarthy views are offensive and inaccurate! Firstly gay peoples sex lives are not based simply on oral sex. Some gay people have children their own children. Is he suggesting adoption as a whole is wrong? Would his views be diffrent if a heterosexual couple adopted a child. Suggesting gay relationships are not based on love or are not equal to hetrosexual relationships is simply wrong.

To say that marriage is inherent in our nature is rubbish. Marriage was invented by the church as a form of control over members of society, and to say that it is natural is wrong. Marriage is a man made institution. However, we as a Western society had accepted it as a symbol of love, respect and commitment to your partner. Therefore, gay marriage or same sex marriage should be as acceptable as heterosexual marriage for these reasons. This man has no right to say that gay marriage is wrong, and he should realise that his extreme Catholic views do not stand welcome in this increasingly secular and liberal age.

Marriage, wedlock, matrimony a social union or legal contract between people which varies according to different cultures, but is hopefully based on love. To deny people of marriage (in or outside the church) is as ridiculous as trying to deny people the right to love. Homosexuality was illegal in the United Kingdom from 1533 till 1967. Thank goodness times have change and will continue to do so.

Shouldn't this gentleman spend more of his valuable time making sure abuse of our children is actually & definatively stamped out in the Catholic church!!!
Can he say with total accuaracy & confidence, that is the case? WHY worry about someones sexuality & same sex marriage, is this subject really anywhere near the awful circumstances that HIS church were involved in?????
While I'm sure the majority of practising Catholics are as disgusted with the abuse, as most people surely are, wouldn't it be better to throw ones efforts into making sure it can NEVER happen again????
A much better cause, I belive!!!!

I would like to undermine what this bloke has said he stated it is inherent in our nature to be same sex marriage, however what he doesn't relise or begin to understand and comprehend is that within same sex marriages the nature for us to be with the same sex. This therefore denies his statement and undermines his whole argument. The point of a baby being a laboratory product is incorrect as many same sex couples who have friends in same position of opposite sex will get together to create a child for both relationships. Therefore a mother is present however if this is not the case then the two fathers or two mothers will be able to give the child the amount of love needed since many heterosexual relationships that have children do not give the love but sometimes causes the child pain however with most homosexual relationships the child is planned and therefore love is always present. This means the child will have a tough yes but loving upbringing which is what a parent needs to provide.

It's the 'protect children' part that really bothers me. Is he really trying to say that a child can't be raised by a homosexual couple? That they are deprived of a female mother figure? Not every heterosexual couple treats a child the way it should be treated. Does he also have a problem with adoption?

homophobia is illegal ! There are loving gay couples who would be the most deserving of parents and there are married heterosexual couples who are the most abusive neglectful parents in the world so what kind of world are we living in !

It should be up to the individual church. There should be no blanket legal ban. For example, if the Quakers are happy to perform gay marriages in their places of worship (as they are) fine, nobody is forcing the Catholic church to do the same if they don't wish to.
Also could someone please tell me why gay people have to settle for a Civil Partnership when straight couples who get partnered in a civil ceremony in a register office with no religious element(what's the difference?) are given the legal status of 'marriage'?
Their partnerships are therefore recognised as marriage in other countries, whereas my Civil Partnership isn't recognised, even in countries where full gay marriage is allowed, i.e. Canada, Spain. A Civil Partnership is second best and discriminatory. Full gay marriage should be legally allowed and the churches can please themselves whether or not they wish to have ceremonies.

Anthony's views are disgusting and discriminative for both same sex and heterosexual couples. His main view being that a child would be made through a process is completely outrageous. What about heterosexual couples who can't conceive naturally and need IVF, couples who adopt, or couples are infertile? Would they then not be allowed to marry? His overall comments are not related to the question above and therefor in my opinion irrelevant.

There is no threat to traditional marriage, times are changing and the world and people's views need to change with it.

Anthony i think you really need to make clear what you mean "That protects children" Have i miissed somthing ? What exactly are you protecting them from ?

There are so many assumptions and sweeping statements within this video, that it becomes increasingly difficult to decipher the pure ignorance and small-mindedness of the man (but I'll give it a go:

- Where did the topic mention the example of a couple who only have sex and want to be married. The ultimate meaning behind marriage is the love between two people, not sexual acts.

- Marriage is a union, state, condition, pledge, ceremony and institution of two committing people. How is the definition changed if the two people are of the same sex? Why is marriage re-defined? The principles remain unchanged.

- Anthony mentions marriage being "inherent"; the definition of which, shares ironic similarities to the definition of homosexuality; "Inherent: existing in someone or something as a permanent and inseparable element, quality, or attribute".

- When referring to marriage protecting children and the society; it is easily argued that the increasing divorce rate and influence this may have for children involved can cause more harm than that experienced by a child raised by a single parent. My argument is clearly flawed, as it cannot be generalised, the same flaw of the initial sweeping statement regarding protection.

- Children as "products" for same-sex marriage, is far from a valid argument for the preservation of marriage for heterosexual people. One key reason being that heterosexual people can quite easily use a child as a product when considering how countries governments reward families with benefits for having children. Marriage does not prevent this, just as same-sex marriage would not encourage this. However a child is 'produced' biologically does not change this.

- When stating that a child has not come about through loving union, is this to say that 'loving union' is impossible to achieve in same-sex relationships?

- "Individual wants", I'm baffled as to how a same-sex relationship which has the depth and meaning of any serious relationship is a method of exercising individual wants?

- I agree that the state has a duty to protect traditional marriage. "Traditional" marriage promotes the positive qualities in a relationship between two people who pledge to love and respect each other. Is it not this stability that will go on to help strengthen society and bring more people together in harmony? Does extending the privilege of such an important social pledge, to those of the same sex, damage the state? I strongly disagree.

I am so disgusted with the comments in the video of Anthony McCarthy. I am currently waiting to have IVF as My Husband and I will not conceive naturally. It has been a hard enough roller coaster without these pathetic comments being shoved in my face at dinnertime and I am thoroughly upset.
Does this man believe that I should not have been married in a church because I cannot have a child naturally. Should everybody wanting to be married in a church undergo fertility testing before being 'allowed' to marry? do we marry solely to bear children?
I would not generally have tuned into this program however the topic caught my attention as my brother in law is gay.
I did not expect to be so offended.

I do not agree with what he has said, but what I hate is the fact that he thinks that you can only have parents if it’s biological.
Any adult figure in a child’s life can be seen as a parent role.
What’s better, living with a drugged up parents while you are beaten or live with adults, be it a man and a woman, two men or two women?
What he doesn't understand is that religion does not have a place in the state; they should not have any input in how people in this country live their lives. If people go to their church then they can fill those people’s heads with as much story telling they want, but should not try to preach to the state.
Now I’m not gay, but i came from Brighton where being gay is classed as normal, I don’t see any problem with gay people getting married, but I do feel it’s up to the church if they want to or not. But it’s not right for someone so say that it’s bad for them to get married altogether.
Let people live how they want; at least you don’t get gay people knocking on doors trying to convert people.

Brilliant as usual a right wing, up tight, daily mail reader. Marriage is inherent in our nature? That does not even make sense, monogamy may be inherent, marriage is a sociological construct. Why deny people the opportunity to show commitment to each other. Let people just be happy.

P.S. his tie is an abomination

I don't think people have understood this speaker at all. He's actually saying some quite profound things but has been 'edited down' to just a few minutes. The point is, why do we have marriage at all - why only two people, why for life, why is the State especially interested? Because of the special biological connection that can give rise to children who are vulnerable and need to be protected and given a sense of identity. No, it's not enough that children be loved - they also need to get both male and female parenting input (mothers and fathers are not interchangeable) from the people who brought them into being. Those who doubt this should do some research on donor conceived offspring and what they're actually saying about how they feel (My Daddy's Name is Donor would be a good place to start). Adoption doesn't always have great outcomes either but at least with adoption we're trying to do our best for existing children, not manufacturing new ones in ways that separate them from their genetic parents before they're even conceived.

Why put his views on TV that we all pay for how disgusting Channel 4....I have a child with my wife in a loving relationship but there are lots of gay couples who deserve kids more than most heterosexual couples.

this has made me ridiculously angry! i am in a lesbian relationship, and have been for over a year. although a young relationship, i have many friends who are homosexual and are extremely happy (including myself). the comment made about if a homosexual couple were to have a child it would not be 'their' child simply because the child is a product because its not come about from a loving union but a series of procedures in a laboratory.!!!!
i plan to have children in the future with my girlfriend. and we will raise a child within a LOVING UNION. we can be loving parents whether two women or two men. i take offence to everything that came out of this man's mouth.
i don't personally see any reason why gay couples cannot marry in a church, straight people do not need to be present so why would it offend them???!! we are all humans, we are all equal and deserve respect. i think this current society or STATE needs to rethink about a lot of things. you don't hear homosexuals protesting AGAINST straight people, we just want to marry the one we love and bring children up who are not prejudice and will experience the most love they deserve.

My question is, Why do gay couples want to get married in a place of Worship, i.e. a Church. A place where people come to worship a God they follow. For me as a Christian, I read the bible and it tells me that Gods plan for us is to be untitled as man and women. For a man to be with a man is not as God intended. So the idea of supporting something within a Church that goes against the Bible is surely wrong and shouldn't happen?
The Church can't stop gay couples getting married elsewhere but within their building, shouldn't it be their choice from what they believe is right?

I treat gay people with the same respect as heterosexual people. However, God does not approve of intercourse between same sexes and therefore "they cannot be joined together" in a church/other place of worship. This does not mean gay people are not welcome in places of worship – they should be made very welcome. If gay people want to be in a partnership then that is their choice alone and they should have the same legal rights as other people. As far as I know, according to The Bible, God has always been proved to be right. There must be a very good reason why he does not want same sex partnerships and we should respect His wishes even though we cannot at this moment in time see what the future will bring. We should also remember that God does say we should all love one another – should we not be investigating why more people are becoming gay?

Wahey!!4thought brilliantly opened this week by highlighting the clear need for education and change that still exists in our society in 2012. An earlier post says they find it hard to express just how much they disagree with this film (I agree). But if watching it makes you try, we are one step closer to changing.

If a couple were to come together and only had, let’s say, oral sex. The question would arise why would they need to be married? Well marriage is a contract between two people sanctioned by the state. It does not dictate what sexual acts can be done by the couple (although sodomy is banned with heterosexuals?). It binds the couple with regards to finances and responsibilities (including children, if they have any). It also allows them to make decisions when the other member may be incapable of doing such e.g. in an emergency. Finally it gives tax benefits on death when the estate is passed from the deceased partner to the remaining one.

I don’t think the church or state has a right to redefine marriage, no, language and word usage is decided by the whole community. The word gay, meant happy, then it meant homosexual and now with teenagers it means crap! Language is continually evolving.

Marriage is not inherent in our nature as men and women. Marriage has always been a social contract between two families. To extend this contract to same sex marriages would neither endanger children nor society.

With all adopted children, the child has been deprived of its natural mother, but this is not the fault of the foster parents. These children may do a lot better in an adopted family (straight or gay ) than in their disturbed biological one. Children in heterosexual families sometimes too come out of a laboratory. Do their parent’s love them less? As for a loving union, many children come about purely by accident, or worse still where the father(s) is(are) unknown. The evidence is that gay parents make better parents because they chose very carefully to have a child.

Can you explain what you mean by bodily dignity? Same sex marriages are not accepted as the norm, because gay people make up the smallest of minorities. That is not to say they are not accepted by normal people!

I think your video clip is a sad reflection on your bigoted outlook. I think the state has a duty to defend all of its people. If citizens wish to get married in a state owned property, whether it be historical or religious, then there is no reason why a gay or any other couple cannot have the ceremony there. If a church does not wish to have gay marriages on its private property, so be it. However the state should withdraw charitable status from religions and tax them like any other organisation.

As for being Catholic, perhaps Anthony McCarthy you should put your own house in order before casting stones?

So much smug sanctimonious drivel, did not address the question, went off at a tangent about children in ‘gay marriage’ being deprived of a mother? Obviously this man has a real problem with Gay men but continues to be a member of an organisation whose crimes against children are to be blunt horrendous. As for his point that the State should not redefine marriage, fortunately, the State does not take its orders from the Vatican whose moral compass is to say the least questionable if not downright hypocritical. The question I would ask, is, why anyone would want to get married by such a bigoted, hate filled and morally corrupt organisation in the first place?

How dare you say the things you said. For one you were only talking about gay men not women. I would like to no how children are at risk because they have same sex parents? Children are abused by parents teachers and other children. Seeing that its a process I guess your agaisnt ivf as well. It's hard to believe someone can be so narrow minded would you be against a woman leaving her husband if he was beating her or should she stay because its gods will and if she dies that's fine because god has joined then. You need to be educated about same sex couples it isn't wrong and sick else why would god who creates all make people gay. I would also like to know your definition of normal as it would be completely different to mine!!!!!!!
Gay people have had to fight enough for there rights and if two people love each other and will share that love with a child then what is wrong with that!!
Someone so narrow minded should keep there opions to themselves when you obviously no nothing about the gay community

You don't have to be married to have children what you do need to be married is to be in love with so,eome who are the Catholic Church or any other church to dictate what is right anymore, today is a very different place from 2000 years ago. Homosexuala have existed for centuries you only have to look at the Roman orgies to see they have been around forever and if God made them feel love for their own sex well it's good enough for me.

My father was gay but a product of a very bigotted society and only thanks to his having to confirm was I along with my 4 siblings born otherwise according to the Catholic church I should not be here. My father nerver lived a fulfilling life which is the right of every individual simply because he did not fit the mould whatever that is??????? I along with my father lived a lie for many years unable to ackowledge my father was gay until I was in my 20's and able to speak my opinion with no fear of reprisal or consequence because frankly I was not going to conform to someone else's opinion of what is right or wrong.

The Catholic religion makes me laugh look at all the paedophiles they have and the want to judge us!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Religion has caused nothing but war and still does today, it should be banned it serves no pjurpose but is a cult for people to worship idols and war on a legitimate basis, WHY ????

Why any self-respecting gay couple would want to get married in a 'place of worship' is beyond me given that these are typically places that teach hatred and intolerance.

I really don't care if questionable morality, hatred and intolerance is kept within the walls of these institutions (churches, temples, mosques etc) but let just one of them try to enforce their vile beliefs on others through perversion of the judicial system then they will have the wrath of a rational nation against them.

The views of Anthony McCarthy are the result of a pernicious and meddlesome religion that has little care for the morality of the people. Catholicism vilifies homosexuals, is responsible for the death of hundreds of thousands of Africans because of it's stance on contraception and yet it continues to hide the rape and torture of children by rapists in the Catholic Church's control.

Take morality lessons from the Catholic Church? I hardly think so!

I am outraged at the views shared on this video! With regards to the comment about a gay couples child being a product and not the result of 'love', is rubbish. What about all of the unwanted children born in the world due to stupid people not using protection? It's the gay couples adopting these children, and giving them a better life! ...And what about straight couples who cant concieve?-is there choice of going to a lab the result of a product?!
Just because it may be a gay couple who are to marry, it should be treated the same! Im sure will find the divorce rate between straight couples is higher than gay couples!

I can only imagine this guy had a wife, but due to his highly ignorant opinions, she probably left him for another woman... Resulting in him being bitter!
Appauling and highly offensive!!

My sister is gay, and wants to marry her girlfriend, they love each other so so much. They have a beautiful,amazing, warm, caring daughter, from artificial insemination. She is just about to be accepted into Wirral Grammer, and i love her so much, as everybody around her does. To me, this is THE most normal thing in the world, and for you to say otherwise i think you are bigoted, closed-minded, and backward thinking.

I am a gay young man my self and think that views on gay marige and haveing childern are disusting. In the uk I belive that homaphobea is now being reduced and the youth of to day is now seeing gays and lebians as eqwel as staight people. This video is not helping the youth of today understand and is creating there for more homapobic abuse!!!!!!!!. In my opinon if you dont have somethig good to say about gays and lebians dont say it at all.

Firstly, a catholic citing things about "protecting children" is, you know, amusing, given the churches role as a uniquely well funded organisation that shipped abusers around places rather than reporting them to the civil legal authorities.

Given that "marriage" is apparently inherent according to this guy, why is homosexuality still present in societies irrespective of if it's legality? doesn't that imply it's something latent and inherent and not some whimsical choice to wake up one day and start liking a bit of penis.

Nobody is forcing him to get a gay marriage. Many gay marriages won't even think about having children, when couples come together because they love each other, they deserve the same legal framework. Childrearing has always been a bit more complicated than man-meets-woman.

Anyway: the catholic church has no right to stop other churches like the quakers marrying gay couples - no churches are or should be forced to do this, but conversely why should any church which does wish to do this be prevented.

i always thought that marraige was to unite 2 people who loved each other and wanted to spend their lives together, on the subject of sex brought up in this clip, SEX is not what a relationship is based on and it definitely isn't what love is based on, love is trust, honesty, caring, commitment and respect between 2 people, so what does sex have to do with being GAY/ STRAIGHT / LESBIAN I have known people who are married and do not have sex with each other or any one else because their relationship does not need it! I do not see how being gay or straight would change that, GOD! is supposed to love all men and women equally! if GOD can forgive a murderer and accept him/her into society! why in your mind can he not accept GAY/ LESBIAN couples?
As for the children subject brought up here, GAY/ LESBIAN couples go through these procedures as an act of love! even straight people go through the same procedure as an act of love so that they can have children so are you saying that is also wrong as they cannot have children for themselves?
homosexuality IS normal! and it is NOT sad that people accept this fact at all, it is sad that people like yourself are homophobic and obviously wear blinkers whilst wandering around if you cannot see that 2 people gay/ straight/ lesbian love each other for exactly who they are!

If a couple were to come together and only had, let’s say, oral sex. The question would arise why would they need to be married? Well marriage is a contract between two people sanctioned by the state. It does not dictate what sexual acts can be done by the couple (although sodomy is banned with heterosexuals?). It binds the couple with regards to finances and responsibilities (including children, if they have any). It also allows them to make decisions when the other member may be incapable of doing such e.g. in an emergency. Finally it gives tax benefits on death when the estate is passed from the deceased partner to the remaining one.

I don’t think the church or state has a right to redefine marriage, no, language and word usage decided by the whole community. The word gay, meant happy, then it meant homosexual and now with teenagers it means crap! Language is continually evolving.

Marriage is not inherent in our nature as men and women. Marriage has always been a social contract between two families. To extend this contract to same sex marriages would neither endanger children nor society.

With all adopted children, the child has been deprived of its natural mother, but this is not the fault of the foster parents. These children may do a lot better in an adopted family (straight or gay ) than in their disturbed biological one. Children in heterosexual families sometimes too come out of a laboratory. Do their parent’s love them less? As for a loving union, many children come about purely by accident, or worse still where the father(s) is(are) unknown. The evidence is that gay parents make better parents because they chose very carefully to have a child.

Can you explain what you mean by bodily dignity? Same sex marriages are not accepted as the norm, because gay people make up the smallest of minorities. That is not to say they are not accepted by normal people!

I think your video clip is a sad reflection on your bigoted outlook. I think the state has a duty to defend all of its people. If citizens wish to get married in a state owned property, whether it be historical or religious, then there is no reason why a gay or any other couple cannot have the ceremony there. If a church does not wish to have gay marriages on its private property, so be it. However the state should withdraw charitable status from religions and tax them like any other organisation.

As for being Catholic, perhaps Anthony McCarthy you should put your own house in order before casting stones?

Very sad man, lets hope there is no such thing as hell or you would be going there.

The first sentence about oral sex immediately confused me, what could this person's message be? He goes on about the purpose of marriage is to protect children - the Catholic church does not have a good reputation, remember. He also thinks that a homosexual marriage is between two men (as a couple's child would not be in contact with the biological mother), not between two women. Probably without you realising, you argue against adoption as in most cases, the child will not be in contact with its biological parents. I can't take this guy serious, he needs to take a lot of time to think things through and probably focus on more pressing issues. This video is perhaps more offending to catholics than to gay people.

What I find more confusing other than the sheer unadulterated hate filled rants, which are entirely in keeping with Christianity, after all they have had two thousand years of crimes against humanity under their belts and there is no other organisation that has ever been a match for their smooth, smug, self-righteous pronouncements. I find it totally bewildering as to why any intelligent person with half an ounce of decency would want anything to do with Christianity. This is made worse when it is from persecuted and utterly rejected by the mainstream church, minority groups. Would a Jew join the Neo Nazis in the hope of changing their policies or Nelson Mandela endorsing membership of the KKK make any sense?. It is not even a question of sexual orientation, after all Jesus was probably Gay or at the very least his sexuality is questionable it is that people would want their marriage to be sanctioned or blessed by such a diligently hate filled organisation. The charges against the Catholic Church and its leaders include piracy, murder, rape, sodomy and incest. Popes turning the Lateran into a brothel. Popes accused by a synod of "sacrilege, simony, perjury, murder again, adultery and of course incest again" and this is not to mention the crimes against children in recent times. Homophobic Gods and paedophile priests what more would you need to make a memorable wedding.

You only argument is that marriage is about having children. First of all you say how a homosexual couples child will have a biological mother somewhere down the line that they are being deprived of, therefore your pointing the finger at gay men and ignoring the fact there will be lesbian couples as well. However in this instance ill let you off with this and assume your just making an example. Then you go on to talk about the child being a product of a production process. Therefore you are also saying that women who physically cant have children don't have the right to be able to under go things such as IVF treatment. Also you are entirely assuming a gay couple will want to got through the "lab" process and create a child, however I for one would much prefer to adopt a child who isn't wanted by a "conventional straight" couple. Also how can anyone condemn a gay couple from loving a child and treating them like royalty when there are low life scum that just because they have "straight" sex they have the right to be able to create life. So basically if you want to make an excuse for why marriage, which apart from the heavily religious marriage is a completely image based religiousless idea this day and age, should not be allowed for homosexual couples then you need a stronger argument than this stupid idea of how children shouldnt be a part of a production line.

If you are gay do your thing you have a right to do so, butpeople should not encroach themself on what other people believe in and have done for years. It's a bit cheeky and a contradiction. I accept people are gay and treat them the same as anyone eles and hate the fact gay people are hated just for being gay, it really saddens me. But when it come to my faith the word of God is what a Christian should rest on and be proud of on and other should respect that too. simples God made marriage between a man and a woman so what notion is there for a gay couple to get married in a church ? none

This is nothing more than traditionalist special pleading.

The way I see it, the State has no business interfering in marriage at all. Let individual churches set their own rules on who they wish to marry on their premises.

As for McCarty's appeals to "inherent nature" and "bodily dignity", "duty" and "THE CH1LDREN!11!!!"--psh! I'm surprised he isn't crying to the government to bring back blasphemy laws too! Not all of us want to live under your slave morality, Tony!

I also have to laugh at his fears of homosexuals growing their own test tube babies: has he never heard of adoption?

If McCarthy's pet traditions are so robust, they should be able to survive without Affirmative Action from the State.

I am in complete shock of this man's narrow minded behaviour.

I am a straight female who has been with her partner for 5 years. We are currently waiting to have IVF treatment after 3 failed attempts at IUI as I am unable to conceive naturally due to infertility problems. For this man to say their child is NOT their OWN child... there is a bilogical mother out there somewhere which the child has been deprived of.. is just beyond me!

I want children more than anything in the world but my body may never allow it, does this mean If I use a donar egg and my partners sperm my child is potentially going to be deprived of its biological mother?? NO I DO NOT THINK SO!

I can not believe this is the thoughts of this man.

also my aunt and uncle have Adopted two children, now when you do adopt a child its because the parents have given up their rights to be parents and the STATE has also confirmed this to be the case and also taken the parents rights away. So is it not in the best interest of the child to find it loving parents no matter if its a mother and father, two mothers or two fathers!
Adopted children are being deprived of their biological mothers because their biological mothers have given them up not because two loving people have DEPRIVED the child!!

I could go on and on about sperm donation and egg donation but I wont.

All i can say now as we are evolving as humans our abilities are evolving too, years ago if couldnt have a child you couldnt have a child.

Now we have advanced ways to help us along, if my child is going to be conceived in a LABORITY (where i have given permission and so wish it to be) or in my body at least it has been CONCEIVED & will be LOVED!!! it does not matter where as long as the child is born healthy and is loved!! (in which it will be)
who are you to judge how we got there!!

I am a 26 year old catholic male with a gay father...

I have grown up as a law abiding citizen, I have a girlfriend of 9 years and I'm doing okay in life, mentally, physically and spiritually. It's people like Anthony that start wars, and increase hate crimes. The ignorant thoughts you project are they same barriers that prevent people from being who they are. They are the people who become alienated just for their life decisions and being a so called catholic, what about love thy neighbour. It didn't say love thy women neighbours only. Love is love, and marriage is about the unification of love between two people men or women.

This guy needs to go back to his box and keep his backwards thoughts to himself.

Horrible, hateful, homophobe, biased, ill-informed. He should look inwards to the Catholic Church and their abuse and cover-ups over the years. Truly hateful. I was adopted, had children through IVF, and have a gay daughter who has EVERY right to get married, if she wants, where she wants. I cannot believe such views are being promoted by Channel 4. Hateful.

Excellent. He spoke well and made good, valid, logical points. A pity the comments are mostly shrill rants about being "hateful" and "homophobic". Please, get a grip.

Marriage is the bed rock of society and marriage consist of a man and a woman devoted to each other and from their union children will be born and nurtured, as nature intended Don't agree? Well ook around and see how 'society' is falling apart

People we are all made INDIVIDUAL so think like one.

"undermine the institution that protects children and ultimately protects society." - What exactly does this individual think about homosexual lives? Does he think we harm children? Disgusting..... the man.... not the marriage.

Love is love, and his inability to realise that shows that he is simply ignorant, and doesn't understand that a parents' job is to love their child, not to bring them up to be as biggotted as he clearly is.

I am lesbian, i find it hard to come out because of society.. i didn't choose to be this way. Straight marriage has such a high failure rate... so why do you still believe in straight marriage if you don't in gay marriage? The bible is against divorce.. so should everyone who gets divorced never be allowed to re marry in a church? In my opinion, you're just picking and choosing like this.

Protect children? I'm sorry, but the statistics for divorce speak for themselves. Meaning the 'conventional family unit' aren't exactly doing that great at the moment, then why no allow same sex couples.

By allowing 'gay marriage' in Church you would have to re-define marriage and re write the Christian faith. I dont see why it is thought acceptable that gay people who are pushing for gay marraige are trying to push their views onto other people. My 'marriage' is different from a gay relationship and so it should be called as such.

The intellectual vacuity of most of the comments here is deeply depressing.
Marriage exists as an institution - a pre-political institution - because certain kinds of sexual activity can bring about children. For that reason the State has an interest in promoting marriage. It is the habit of totalitarian governments to redefine words/pre-political realities. If SSM is fine why not marriage for polygamy/polyamory? Why not single 'marriage'? Why on earth the State has interest in recognising these and making one's inherent sex (as opposed to 'orientation') irrelevant to the definition of marriage (and therefore makes nonsense of the need for lifelong-fidelity and monogamy) is something left unanswered by the commenters above.
The sheer level of personal abuse, vitriol and ignorant guff above gives eloquent testimony to the weakness of the sexual liberationist case. Interesting how many self-styled liberals here want to shut up the opposition and are outraged that someone has, politely, offered an alternate position. The other films seems to consist of homosexuals saying 'I want this, I want this, give it to me or you're a homophobe'. No argument, no substance, much support!

How typically ignorant. Why should a non religious heterosexual couple be allowed to marry in a church, but a religious homosexual couple shouldn't?

I think that Homosexuals should be able to get married in church, but I would understand if the church turned them down because, its not Homophobic as such, it's part of their religion and if it was me, I wouldn't make them undermine their religion as for most people, it has been part of them all their life.

As Robyn has said, I can't stress enough about that the fact that, just because you are married doesnt mean you want kids, I mean yes it is in most cases, but people don't get married just to have sex and have kids...

And i will say now, that i am gay, and my partner cant conceive, but i would marry her, because i love her, and nothing else. She means the world to me, and thats all i could ever ask for.

So I say this film is very biased...come back with one not so biased....

Cheers.

Words can't describe how much I dislike this man. I think he doesn't know what love is and I think he needs to realize that love is a beautiful thing.

And another thing, children in gay marriages are products?!
This man clearly has no idea about what he's saying

But the child of one of a lesbian married couple would have one of that couple as her parent, so that argument falls down.

what a load of tosh... small minded opinions should be kept in the small minded middle ages. I believe that we are a modern society and am quite happy for people to have something to believe in. whatever it takes to make you enjoy life through to the max, at the end of the day were only here once. How can the human race evolve if people try stop progress? If you are religious then of course you have every right to be identified and treated the same within your chosen religion, be it Catholocism Hindu or Islam. do what makes you happy for you not because a few small minded people say you shouldnt... and yes i am a Gay but not religious, though i respect people who choose a faith :)

Well I have to agree with Mr. McCarthy, in all fairness, that the Church should have the right to refuse gay marriage ceremonies on their premises because their scriptures condemn gay relationships. To quote the bible it is an abomination to their god. This being the case to sanction gay relationships by performing gay weddings in their churches would put them in the ridiculous situation of sending out a message that is completely contradictory. But he then goes further by implying gay marriage shouldn't be permitted "or become the norm" in our society under any circumstances for which he has no justification. To just say it is sad is woefully inadequate.
His other comments on gay sex matters of course smack of ignorance and prejudice and are mostly too ridiculous to comment on. His comment that conventional heterosexual marriages are designed to protect children (and society?) is just his personal opinion and is factually incorrect. Is he implying that gay male parents are more likely to neglect and abuse their children just because of what they are?
This "traditional institution" as he puts it does very little to protect children from his sex abusing Catholic Priests. His laboratory argument could also apply to infertile heterosexual couples who use test tube and IVF facilities to have children.
I'm afraid your comments are well out of order Mr. McCarthy, typically Christian though.

Karl,
Must say that your comment really is based on fresh air! have you ever actually read the bible or any passages from it? I am a Catholic woman and have never felt any less valuable than any man. In fact I believe that it is a Christian perspective to value men and women equally. It was society that de-valued women not the Christian faith and most certainly not Jesus. And NO we dont just think'we wont follow those bit of the bible' because 'those bits' of the bible dont exist. We actually follow the whole of the bible to the letter!

marriage was 'man made' so why cant we change this for equality?
sticking to the issue, God created human beings as equals, cut us open do we not bleed the same colour? why should gay people not have the right to marriage in places of worship, marriage is about 2 people loving, respecting and supporting each other through good and bad! as for the comments regarding children off script but hey seeing as Mr McCarthy went there, well lets....a child been born into a married family with a mum and dad, suffers neglect, emotional/physical/sexual abuse is it right to leave them in this situation as they are with their biologcal parents or would it in the best interest for said child to be removed and put into a stable loving home be that with a same sex couple, single guardian or another male/female relationship????
what about those people in a m/f relationship not being able to concieve naturally, are they wrong to ask for help,IVF??
i think if you want to have a view on gay marriage in places of worship maybe next time try to stick to the script, ill leave this with you Mr McCarthy karma may take its time but it does come back round, id hate to see one of your children having to tell you they were gay. Have a wonderful day :-)

Marriage is a sacred relation between man and woman and any other kind of relationship is against the will of god and natural. Marriage isn t about children but children is a continuity to this sacred relation ,and kids need to be raised by normal people who are able psychologically to teach and transfer them the right values of life ,and gays are not able to do this mission first because they are not their own children and second they have a psychological problems concerning their own identity and attraction ,so in place of encourage this annormal phenomemon we should treat them and raise from the beginning our children in normal conditions to decrease this phenomenon.

What has this to do with SPUC, it has nothing to do with abortion - some members are even condemning gay unions let alone allowing homosexual couples marry in a places of worship. Personally as a member of SPUC and gay I don't like the recent homophobic developments within the movement and I will find it increasingly difficult to work with other members who hold such views. In my view they should form another society, a society that I wouldn't be a member of.

I'm a straight woman and can't have children, does that mean I shouldn't have got married? Also, the point that with a gay couple the child isn't theirs and that the child is being "deprived" of its biological mother is a shortsighted to say the least. Children who are adopted by anyone are generally not living with at least one of their biological parents regardless of whether their adoptive parents are gay or straight, so does that mean all adoptions whether by gay or straight people are wrong?

Of course they should! marriage is about people being in love with each other and it shouldn't matter whether they are gay or straight! All this crap about people who are gay being wrong is just a load of outdated rubbish and they should shut up. Also, people being gay shouldn't stop them from being religious. It is not a choice, it is in them and people should learn to accept that.

As gay marriage is not a Christian belief, gays do not have the right to demand marriage in a Christian church. To demand this is disrespectful towards Christians.

6 out of 10 kids have said they prefer having too mums or dads

i think you should treat gay the way that you are tread and that gays are allowed to have children because they are like you but they just want a child to love and to be a parnent which they are allowed to do. so i think that you should re trhink about what you have said.

Surly the child is adopted and therefore still had a biological mother. He says the state has no right to get involved in changing the definition of marriage and then at the end says the state should defend marriage isn't this a complete contradiction????