What are the limits to religious education? Last on 11 Aug 2012

Rhys Morgan [more...]

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Daniel Robertson 06 Aug 2012 23:05

Thank Rhys. You show that there may be hope for the younger and future generations. The teaching of religion as anything other than cultural phenomena should be banned. I found those posters you mentioned to be both disgusting and insulting. What I think might be even more beneficial than teaching about atheism, though I agree that should be done as well, is teaching young minds to start thinking critically. Show a child to weigh up the evidence and think for himself and I would hope the results would be encouraging, even (maybe in my ideal world) in the face of peer and family pressure.

jim666 07 Aug 2012 11:28

Very well said I would only add that philosophy should be balance with the histories of religion and as Daniel Robertson rightly says through the eye of critical thinking.

Brichan 07 Aug 2012 17:26

Atheism = rationality. Theism = silly beliefs in myths.

Tony Jones 07 Aug 2012 18:42

Well done Rhys, standing up to others takes courage and character. You are a fine example to all people who come to realise the degrading nature of religion and superstition.

Sean Ellis 08 Aug 2012 17:08

Excellent film, Rhys. The National Curriculum framework for RE, I understand, allows time for non-theistic worldviews such as Humanism. It is a shame that your new school seems not to be doing so.

James 08 Aug 2012 20:25

It seems to be nothing new when a group of religious people get angry over Atheists speaking their mind, but it's perfectly ok for them to do it, just not Atheists. I've personally never seen an Atheist street preach at all, but I've seen Muslims (even though when I have seen Muslims, they've been handing out leaflets, and nothing else) and I've certainly seen Christian preachers, with placards telling me if I don't repent, I'm going to hell.

Mike Lake 09 Aug 2012 08:22

There is no such "ism" or ideology as "atheism". There is nothing to be treated as a religion.

The only thing that all atheists share is that they have no need for gods or the supernatural to answer the big questions of life or to create a strong set of personal moral values. Note: "personal moral values", not second-hand moral values laid down in some holy book written in the deserts of the Middle East while sitting under a tree as the goats grazed nearby. I often wonder if religious people are incapable of drawing up a set of strong personal moral values. It's not rocket science, the average class of 9 years olds can do it - I know, I got them to do it at the start of every autumn term.

If there were no religions there would be no atheists - we are defined by religions but we have no religion and we cannot be treated as one.

While sitting round the fire in their cave, Og must have said to Ug - "I think there must be something out there that makes the sun come up and the rain to fall - I will call that thing a god." Ug probably said: "don't be daft, there's nothing out there except the world we live in and the stars around us."

Non-belief in gods must, by definition, have come before belief. Only when someone came up with the god theory (actually, not a theory because it does not lead to hypotheses that can be tested) was it necessary for the rest of us to say "We have no need of that, we can answer the big questions of life without inventing supernatural entities. So, no thanks, we have no need for gods or your humanity-denying religions."

Lee 09 Aug 2012 21:16

Rhys - what a star - thank (not) God that you changed from Evangelism to Atheism - which is the only view that makes any sense given the evidence. You are quite right that PHILOSOPHY needs to be taught in schools and religion under that auspices. Your broadcast is the best one I have ever seen on 4thought...it is typical that those who feel their views are threatened by atheism go on the attack and as you have found there is propaganda in schools to pressure kids to believe. Such posters only show that the Jesus cult in a mental crutch - happy people do not need to rely on Jesus to be happy.

Lee 09 Aug 2012 21:22

http://digitalnal.com/one-of-the-best-atheism-quotes-ever-937.html

steph 11 Aug 2012 18:55

i had to pray in primary school in assembly to god whilst Muslims got to sit outside. I never got the option to sit outside? everyone would just assume we were all believers in god - and i never have been. I also think religious education should be an option not compulsory

BC. 11 Aug 2012 18:57

I think it takes a lot of courage to stand up and disagree with something that our country sees as 'correct' Religious people are often standing up and trying to convert people and save them from their 'sins'..there doesnt seem to be many people who will stand up and fight for atheism. Well done.

KellyAnnLindsey 11 Aug 2012 18:58

Religious education surely should include a religion? Respecting others beliefs is something that should be enforced as a general rule anyway. Sorry but I just don't see how atheism can be studied.

Hannah. 11 Aug 2012 19:00

My high school didnt even teach about any orher form of religion but christianity, and when we asked questions the teacher just said "we dont teach those " like it was something dirty and my teacher told every one animals didnt have personalities or souls -_-... i dont mind religion, any sort i just care how the actual person is, i just think it was weird that 'Religious education' only taught christianity in my school :/

Leigh P?inter 11 Aug 2012 19:03

Funny how people see buddhism as a religion! For a religion there must be a Devine being or God! A Buddha is a human not a god.

In my experience, people who say Buddhism is a philosophy and not a religion usually mean it as a compliment. They are trying to say, I think, that Buddhism is something other than the superstitious rubbish they believe religion to be.

In this view, religion is a jumble of primitive folklore that humankind drags through the ages like a cosmic security blanket. Religion is passionate and irrational and messy. But philosophy is the flower of human intellect. It is reasonable and civilized. Religion inspires war and atrocity; at worst, philosophy incites mild arguments over coffee and dessert.

Buddhism -- some Buddhism, anyway -- is a practice of contemplation and inquiry that doesn't depend on belief in God or a soul or anything supernatural. Therefore, the theory goes, it can't be a religion.

NORE 11 Aug 2012 19:04

When at high school I was informed by my Religious Education teacher that R.E was the only subject that the schools (in Scotland) were obliged to teach - something that I have questioned to this day.

The conversation came about as I refused to take the subject seriously, as like Rhys I saw myself as an atheist. I understood that I should accept religions and people with faith but I saw no reason why they should be taught to me for 2 hours a week.

If I wanted to learn about Jesus (which is what we predominately taught) I would have went to one of the 6 churches in my town. If I was raised Muslim, Hindu, Jewish or any other religion then it would have been my parents place to teach me about it and take me to the appropriate church.

I am not anti religious but I strongly disagree with it crossing into religion and politics- particularly in this day and age. To end the problems describe by Rhys I believe that R.E should be offered as a choice subject, allowing pupils to bow out if they do not wish to be taught or discuss their own religion. Having been raised in the west of Scotland, a similar set up would have greatly benefited us, where the obvious arguments were over Protestants and Catholics.

I see religion in schools as one more way for kids to find to pick on people and start fights.

gironaut 11 Aug 2012 19:08

Rhys Morgan

I drive past similar posters some days. One reduced me to tears, "The Millennium is Jesus's 2000th Birthday". What a cake that was going to be.

You've got to wonder at the sort of person who designs, produces and hangs stuff like that.

tony 11 Aug 2012 19:16

The thing that frustrates me the most about religion is the fact that people insist on abusing others who don't agree with what they do. Its been said a million times before but why can't we just get along.

Mark Johnatty 11 Aug 2012 20:43

In sport, you enter an event to exercise yourself and win a medal. What would you win by being an atheist? Well, God promised Abraham, that in him ALL NATIONS WOULD BE BLESSED.(Gen.12:3) and his descendants would inherit the Land of Canaan.(Gen.12:7). That Covenant is through Abraham and Christ.(Gal.3:16) and if we are Christ's we are Abraham's descendants and "heirs according to the Promise".(Gal.3:29). The promise of the land of Canaan to Abraham's descendants through Isaac was made at Shechem (Gen.12:7) Today that is called Nablus. Although the Jews were scattered all over the world, God said he would gather them (Jer.31:10).Ezekial 37:21-22 says three things about the Jews. (1) They would be restored to the land. (Fulfilled), (2) They would be a nation (fulfilled in 1948) (3) One King shall be king to them. (Not yet fulfilled). The King will reign over all the earth (Zech.14:9). Do you want something more than just a good feeling? Can you believe the Bible? It's your choice.

Lesleymo 11 Aug 2012 22:09

I have been of the same opinion as Rhys since my school days in the 1960s, or at least since I left school and discovered atheism/agnosticism to be more mainstream than was apparent within that institution or from the media. AJ Ayer, Barbara Wootton and Bertrand Russell were about the only ones I knew about! At least we too did some comparative religion, which was quite progressive then.

Paul 12 Aug 2012 11:24

It's refreshing to hear someone speak so eloquently about the subject of religious indoctrination in schools. Suggesting that religious education should be broad, open and more philosophy based, with atheism taught alongside faiths is far more intelligent than anything said by the Secretary of State for Education, Michael Gove. I admire your courage for speaking out Rhys, and for standing up against an education system which is living in the Dark Ages. I recently received an e-mail on behalf of Michael Gove stating: "No Free School is allowed to teach creationism". I shall be sending your comments together with my reply.

Raj 12 Aug 2012 12:14

Sad face happy face is a good reflection of first Century Christianity, so don't knock it.
The selfish gene can be ruinous, ask the Rangers football fans and the ordinary Greek worker, and so a social contract with the church can be beneficial and even a relief. But the crazy creationists hijacked Christianity and ruined it.
Point being, Christianity is not essentially evil, we have made it that way.

Holden 12 Aug 2012 17:36

It's absurd that any school or curriculum would allow anyone to reach adulthood without having encountered and debated a multitude of philosophical views, and been able to practice the important intellectual skills their contemplation requires. What real use is any knowledge to somebody who hasn't asked or been asked what knowledge is and how it can or should be experienced, valued, and used? The only reason one would omit to engage them with that is a will to see them become subjected, dishonest or apathetic. Religious ideas are nothing but goofy submissions to a few abstruse branches of philosophy, and they should be accordingly included, and buried, within a broad and thorough philosophy programme, prioritising at the very least epistemology, ethics and economics.

Simon 13 Aug 2012 14:59

Angry, verbally abusive muslims reacting with fury. Why am I not surprised?

TT 13 Aug 2012 19:30

When I was at school everyone got on well enough, but you were mainly friends with people into the same music as yourself. At your school people are friends with people with the same beliefs. Bizarre. In my friendship group people's beliefs were irrelevant it boiled down to which band you all went to see together and have an enjoyable shared experience. Makes me sad that people cant overlook personal belief to celebrate the fun in humanity regardless of belief.

D Sharp 21 Sep 2012 10:01

As an RE teacher I pride myself on giving a full rounded view of the 6 major world religions, atheism and humanism. RE is important to help teach respect, develop critical thinking skills and help with literacy. I would love to have Rhys as a student in my lessons, being able to give his opinion in a calm and supportive environment.