4thought.tv

I like you sir, but I am certain large numbers of Christians would have trouble with your concept of God... and of the message of the bible. No heaven, no judgement, no salvation, no eternal life?

In terms of what the bible actually declares, I'd have to side with them against you, and I'm an atheist. While I don't think the bible is correct in what it asserts, I'm perfectly clear on what that is.

I like your twist on an already twisted definition of "god". Atheism, through Dawkins, has untwisted “god” by recognizing Yahweh as the God of the Old Testament.

If the prophets said
The fool has said in his heart there is no God… Psalm 53
…in context of Yahweh then the “fool” aspect is in denying Yahweh after the close encounter of the third kind, that being the testimony of the prophets. The “fool” aspect was not about resisting inarguable religious science or creationism. But it was natural for the Jews to keep pace with progress and so Yahweh became creator on the say so of King Hezekiah. Progress eventually meant Yahweh was an embarrassment and so there was a deliberate and systematic cover-up in order for Judaism to acquire full credentials as a creationist religion. That cover-up is over but thank you anyway for coming clean about the ridiculous god of the crazy creationists.

Religions can learn from atheism that creationism has got nothing to do with Yahweh. I think we can re-write the above for Jewish, Christian and Muslim creationists to say “the fool has said in his heart there is a god.”

Dawkins was able to recognize Yahweh because he found out about the cover-up more famously known as the spiritualisation of the conception of God.

Ah, I can see that honesty is not your strong suit.

"Reject supernatural"
David, sometimes you have to reject the supernatural but at other times you only need to re-define it and bring it back into the realms of the natural or the realms of science fiction. If Jesus was restoring sight today we would assume he was someone using stem cells. The story does not have to be lost to superstition just because the gospel writers knew nothing about quantum physics. They were creationists because they did not have many options when it came to explaining how the universe was made. Neither they nor God owes us an apology.

I think the Lord Jesus Christ as creator of all things, must be appalled, but not surprised of course (as God knows everything) to watch people who are trusted to teach about Him so proudly deny even His existence.

No offence David but if you did not believe in God why did you become a Vicar whose job is to Spread the word of the Judeo-Christian false god (I am a servant of the Egyptian pantheon) in the first place just saying.

A teacher or preacher who does not believe in his subject is like a stone statue in front of his class or congregation.

Mr Patterson firstly let me say I respect your honesty however clearly this is part of the cause religions belief and church attendants is in decline. People teaching what they do not even believe in regards to God to congregations of people is a fruitless exercise. As stated in the Bible Matthew 15:14 'Let them alone: they be blind leaders of the blind. And if the blind lead the blind, both shall fall into the ditch'.

When people who believe in God reject God as you want them do to they become atheist so what would be the point of being part of a religion that is based on a belief in God,the ransom sacrifice of Jesus etc..

For what you say you are in fact a atheist vicar and you are not the only one in this position. Christians are supposed to be footstep followers of Christ 1 Corinthians 11:1. Jesus believed God was real and rejected the religious leader of his time man made tradition and believes because they did not resemble God teaching therefore clarifying all religions do not lead to God then and today clearly...

I have suspected for many years that many of the religious leaders do not believe in the actual existence of a God and that religions are autocratic political systems that impose 'belief' as a control for the benefit of the elite. thanks for the honesty even if it is belated and rather disingenuous if not downright hypocritical and immoral to pretend.

For me a God or a Religion is something our species turns to when it doesn't understand something.

Now, science is filling in a lot of the blanks and I have faith that science will work the rest of this out... whatever the outcome.

So this man was a pseudo-priest. Who didn't believe a word of it. If anyone has ever been to Sunday communion and listened to their vicar, the word God is used in just about every uttered sentence. They then take bread and wine in the firm belief that it turns into the blood and flesh of the risen christ. You can bet your bottom dollar that this retired vicar wasn't saying "GROW UP THERE IS NO GOD". While his congregation were dropping their cash into his collection plate.

The word god originates from the atomic blast that started the Big Bang you poorly educated television programme.

Lovely man - couldn't agree more. Suprised at his choice of career though!

Righteho. My turn to blog. What can religion learn from Athiesm? It can possibly learn to adapt to the 21st Century. Some of the teachings are archaic, granted. I mean we live in an age were capital punishment is frowned upon, so I guess the old stoning someone to death doesn't work anymore. Religion could also learn to not be so one sided and shut off to other ideas(although most athiest love firing shots at religions). At the end of the day, in reference to the film, that was just so RANDOM it was unbelievable but I think religion can learn from athiesm but athiesm can also learn from religion. I mean digging into most religious books (which I have) You get the teachings of loving, caring, giving, sharing. It's important to learn from each other. WE CAN ALL MAKE IT TOGETHER. I LOVE YOU ALL. VIVA LA . OKay I'm done. XXXXXXXXXXX

Means you were deceiving your members all along, what a shame.

Sorry but this just saddens me....that someone in leadership within a church doesn't believe in the very central part of it. Respectfully I disagree with your comments. I believe God exists and he alone is Holy....we as humans cannot make anything 'holy'.

Very bang on. This was saying what Spinoza was saying back in the 18th century. Spinoza came from a strict Jewish culture and what he said got him excommunicated and earned him death threats. Basically what he said was, "God did not create the universe, God is the universe.

The simplest deconstruction of the term god, is that which created us. As long as the universe has the ability to create us, why multiply entities?

The first thing that ALL religious people need to learn is that we do not have a spirit or a soul...once that they grasp the fact that there is nothing special about the human animal the better the planet will be. Stop telling children that there is a heaven and hell too. The love for your children should not be based on mythology.

Don't really care,but believing in something is better than believing in NOTHING at all.

I wonder how he Knows there is nothing beyond the universe .... Have we been that far? Beware false prophets

I think it is an absolute abomination that this man can become a vicor only to not teach the word of God, it is now clear to me just why there are disputes on subjects such as gay marriage when we have men like this who are suppose to teach the word of god and nothing more. I think that the atheist should keep it to himself. Shame on his peers.

I found David Patterson's views surprising and very refreshing. Yet again I applaud C4 for this valued slot if ossible never to be missed. Atheism is in my view extremely valuable as a counterbalance to all relgions and faiths in the world. Religion and science are not separate in my view but entwined we need sceptics non believers and religious points of view. Most importantly we need debate and tolerance.
Ngel Farley

I think in todays world, one of the most important things that needs to be etched into the social and cultural climate is in an emphasis to be a good person. A person with good morals. One who cares about the wellbeing and feelings of others. One who isn’t afraid to help others in need, whether they are close to that person or a complete stranger. Whether we want to believe it or not, most of us know whats right and wrong. Peer pressure and group culture seem to play a big part in the way many conduct themselves these days. For example, if a person falls and hurts themselves, a group of people may laugh and poke fun at him/her, but if any member of that group were alone, I am confident that they would, from the heart, want to help that person up.

If people wish to follow a religion to become a better person, then that’s great (in my opinion), but we must remember that if a person chooses not to be part of a religion, then that does not automatically make them an atheist. Nor does it make them a bad or lesser person.

There are countless religions on this planet, and quite frankly, I think that could contribute to segregations within society. I don’t mean that in a negative way towards religion – its just an observation from watching the news and various media streams. How about this for an idea... if, in our hearts we know what’s right and wrong, would it be so bad to bypass religion and just simply believe in a God? I think there are a lot of positives in religion, but are these positives that we don’t already know? Is religion a mountain between you and God which you have to scale in order to reach God? My opinion is that we should all come together as a race... the human race... and watch over, care for and respect each other. To believe in God, I don’t think religion is actually necessary... but hey, what do I know, I’m only human!

What can religion learn from atheism? In short - nothing! In view of the advanced years of the presenter of the argument it is hard not to feel compassion for his delusion but he is wrong. The reason he is wrong is that no one can prove the existence or non-existence of God. So people like Dawkins etc who claim to rely on an evidence base for their arguments loose because at the end of the day science cannot explain the first principle of life. So if you like evolution as a creation myth, that is fine but as a 'beginning of all things' it remains a myth as no scientist has yet explained where the 'swamp gas' we apparently 'evolved from' came from?

As a scientist myself I would not argue that mutation and variation exists in most species but I certainly did not 'evolve from an ape'!

Herein the lies the greatest problem for the atheist. The presenter of you little programme stated 'there is nothing else but this planet and this universe. There is no God'. But he cannot make this as an evidence based statement as there is no 'evidence' only a working theory - one has to remember that the 'Theory of Evolution' is precisely that - a 'Theory'.

Therefore he is quite free to say his religion is his faith or belief in the Theory of Evolution as the beginning of all things but he cannot 'prove' his theory is better that the theory of most religions of a creative God.

But what Atheists could learn from most Christians is not to be so aggressively intolerant that they try to exterminate all religion particularly Christianity. If as he claims we should attempt to live in peace then Atheists should make room for the beliefs of others and not pursue such an intolerant and totalitarian (stalinist) position of trying to exterminate all religion eg faith schools etc from the public square.

Saying you disagree with another's beliefs is fine but trying to remove the beliefs of others by force eg sacking nurses or workers for wearing a cross is a sign of extreme intolerance which demonstrates that Atheists are not really confident in their argument and belief.

I would recommend the gentleman in the clip tries God - and soon.

I'm sure that David was /is a lovely compassionate vicar who has helped many people but I do hope that he always ministered in a town so that those thirsty for the water of life had another well they could visit that wasn't dry.

Forty years ago, Mr Patterson was ordained, first Deacon, then Priest. He had to repeat the Creed and assent to The 39 Articles; in other words he had, among other things, to profess belief in God. Perhaps he might care to have another, good, look at his Prayer Book. GOD Bless!

If David Patterson was vicar at a church near us, I would start going.

First of all I don't respect his fake honesty, because he wasn't honest at all. How can you not believe in Christianity and work as a representative of it. Pure dishonesty through out life. Second of all the question, "what can religion learn from atheism?" Religion is massive, so.you can't clump it all in one. Islam specifically doesn't need ANY lessons from atheism at all.

I am an atheist, I am a scientist, however I believe that if there is a supreme being in control of our lives then they would also have the power to remain anonymous. So I do believe in god, as an idea, and anyone who thinks they have spoken to god has had a stroke! If there is a god then by definition they have the power to let us get on with our lives and stop going on about made up stuff in the bible!

Give this man a knighthood, a medal, a kiss, a hug, shake his hand, pat him on the back, buy him a beer and share tea and cakes with him.... Finally someone has said it plainly, to camera, on film, with sense and simplicity. Of course there is no "God", as a separate outside force that oversees everything. IT"S A CONCEPT!!! I like Christianity and like the concepts, stories, parables, ideas of what Christianity is about. But I am embarrassed by all this guff that religion gives you about Him (capital H nonsense etc), and afterlife and Heaven. Come on! Intelligent people should know better. Going on like this completely undermines all region (not just christianity) that people insist beyond their own logic, that there is a 'real' God. It just just gives Dawkins ammunition to undermine everything there is to religion. (btw, I was confirmed at 14 and sung in a choir, and heard numerous sermons, and actually love churches (although do not attend), the 'way' and ideas of being a good person that's within christianity etc etc). I'm not alone in this frustration with religion, this overbearing power mad, controlling nonsense.
Why can't people get a grip, be honest, be real, say it how it is and stop the mumbo jumbo? No wonder christianity is losing it's followers. Dawkins talked to the Archbishop in debate...he won the argument, the archbishop looked 'stupid', confused and evasive. He didn't need to be so, he could have just said, yup, god is a concept, it just words, a story, a way of saying what it is, and let's face it, was written for an audience 2000 years ago. And then had a proper conversation about what's really important: be nice to people, help people, be kind, gentle, work in harmony, care for the environment, pick up your litter, be honest etc etc. It's not rocket science. This is so easy.
I'm not surprised by the vicar and his views, and it's absolutely fine with me he's a vicar and said he 'doesn't believe in god'. Absolutely nothing wrong with that. He does believe in the concept of god, and that, in this more enlightened time, is what's counts. God is all around us, everything is god. See, I'm talking about god and it's just a concept and I'm fine with it. Jesus Christ was a story, may have been partly true, I don't know, it doesn't matter! There's no afterlife, come on, be real…and it doesn't matter. But I can still be 'religious' and still have integrity.
The frightening thing about indoctrination to god in whatever religion, is the violent outcomes, the extremes. That's got nothing to do with god, but mans' desire for power. Stop giving succour to those idiots who abuse the sound ideas that 'started the religions in the first place', and just be real: there is no god, it's just a concept. Pleeeeeaaase.

I think that the gentleman that gave his thoughts about God is a similar age to me. We would have both been youngsters in the 1950's, at that time 'Man' was supreme....a few years earlier the atom had been split,there was nothing else to learn...God seemed to have had his day. Some years passed, the most prominent scientist of the last century became bed bound, but as he lay, holding onto life, Einstein concluded that something was missing.....his mathmatics simply did not add up.
Today, prominent scientist are in agreement, their mathmatics, also, do not 'add up'. They conclude that there must be other dimensions to the ones that we all know so well.....One day a time will come when a mega-mantic genius will proclaim 'absolutely' that God does or does not abide within one of those 'hidden' dimensions...so why not wait and enjoy the joy of God until that time.

Oh dear. Pick a side. You are like a maths teacher standing up in front of a class and SAYING 2+2=4, but actually believing it to be completely wrong. It's like you've just been talking about numbers for the last 40 years and how interesting the shapes are to draw, and forming the numerals with different coloured felt tips- but never actually counting. Ever.

What can religions learn from Atheists, that atheists can apply for the jobs as Vicars etc because believing in God and adhering to the Bible is not part of the job specification or job description. 'Just live the best life's' however this is a subjective experience even some abusers, thieves, murderers, rapists etc believe they are living the best life's you will find...

"But he answered and said, Every plant, which my heavenly Father hath not planted, shall be rooted up. Let them alone: they be blind leaders of the blind. And if the blind lead the blind, both shall fall into the ditch."
(Matt 15:13-14)

I was raised in a C of E family where we were made to go to church on a Sunday to hear some joker like this speak. But thank God in His providence after much sin in my teenage years, I met a real Christian, one that was truly born again of God's Holy Spirit and he was able to actually share the gospel with me, something which I never heard at the C of E church! We need to be reconciled to God through repentance and faith in the Lord Jesus Christ. Religion saves nobody, only Jesus Christ can save.

Very sadly, many will curse this mans name as he led them to Hell, when they too find themselves there?

If 'Chris B' is "perfectly clear" on "what [the Bible] is", then his intellect puts me and my years of searching for such meaning in the shade. For me, David Patterson's short speech here is an example of language at its very best: clear, succinct and brave. Well done that man. And thank you, sir.

Words fail me!

Interesting but in truth that could have been one of many people offering a personal opinion. Rather than assume the guise of a priest couldn't have simply started up his own atheist church and let his flock gather round him on that basis. All seems rather dishonest to me.

unless a person has been baptised in fire (the Holy Spirit) he/she is not serving Jesus.I pray this person finds Christ or Christ finds him and he gets saved.

A Catholic,I feel totally at one with Mr Patterson's 'human' or 'atheistic' concept of God. Instead of being lead by our insecurities to take out an eternal insurance poliy with a supernatural guarantor of the next life, we are offered a creative, human appropriation of the divine here and now. The ideals expressed in the words and stories of scripture illuminate and inspire us to act: they throw us back upon ourselves and challenge us to consecrate this life so that in our actions the spirit of Christ can indeed continue to walk upon earth.

Quite weird that any man would spend so long in a faith that he doesnt even believe in. What a waste of his life and how he las let down those who trusted him. He should never have gone into that job and how sad that he never really knew God who is the most amazing father ever.

"When I became a vicar, I don't think I was asked if I believed in the existence of God....'' What did David think the Church has taught, believed and lived over the centuries? What did he think was the meaning of his ordination as a priest, and the meaning of the formularies and rites of the Church in ordination? I have no doubt that there is a lot of truth, beauty and goodness in other faiths, much that we Christian can learn and respect. I have no problem acknowledging the Divine if I attend worship in a Buddhist, Hindu, Shinto or Taoist Temple or shrine; or in a Mosque or Synagogue - and am happy to pray in such. We can also learn a lot from other philosophies, including those espoused by some atheists. Much as I think Richard Dawkins is not very good at understanding or doing theology; his books on evolutionary biology are very good; and I have no difficulty with the concept of the evolution of the universe or the evolution of life by chance and natural causes. But to be a Christian priest (which I am) means to believe in the existence of God as the Holy Trinity. And to believe in Jesus, true God and true man, born of Our Lady, who dies upon a cross, and is risen from the dead and ascended into heaven. No law forces anyone to believe that, but if they don't, they are falsely taking money if given a priestly stipend. The Church of England is rightly a broad Church, that recognises the complexity and subtlety of life and faith – but atheism is very much a leap too far, well outside the meaning of Christianity and what it is to be Church.

I always understood that Anglican clergy had to assent to the Thirtynine Articles.Article One specifically states belief in the trinitarian God.If Mr Patterson does not believe in God in assenting to those articles he was being somewhat hypocrital.
However I do not believe that Patterson is alone among the Anglican clergy in holding such beliefs.
If the C of E doesn't weed out these heretics it is increasingly difficult for orthodox catholics and evangelicals to remain within it.

I'm sure he is a very nice man and he is certainly being honest on screen, but he is dishonest in remaining a vicar. If he had as much integrity as he clearly thinks he has (and even as he seems to have) he would do the decent thing and resign. Still, it's a comfortable way of life...

Beyond belief. No wonder the C of E is on its last legs

Compassion and simple goodness is Love and this is what David Patterson came over as. In all the talk of an Atheist church, no one has mentioned Love and neither do the religious people talk about Love. An Atheist church needs a central focal point; let it be Love and then gradually they will find spirituality whether they deny it or not.