4thought.tv

cos this country is run by mugs who could care less about the youth of today. white collar crooks get away with it, why shouldn't the hoods??

Glad because it happened due to the fact the government shut young people out and everything they do goes against them. For example, tuition fees, EMA and even bus fairs have just risen for bline aged people only.

I think the riots, for the most part, were a mix of criminal opportunism and a yearning to take control. Youth people are not be inspirational leaders, but by the leash held by the established power in the UK. Its not their fault they find it hard to get jobs or to live a life outside of poverty because these decisions are made by people they werent old enough to vote for, or if they were, people who they could not relate to. Politicians and bankers create the climate that these young people live in and they have no control. With the riots, while it was most definately opportunism in the main, a sense of doing something they could control is a persuasive idea.

This makes me feel angry, confused, angry and confused. I learned something from it.

I think the riots happened because people are really bored sitting at home with nothing to do.
another reason would be because they knew that they wouldn't get caught because many other people were joining in too.
The main reason why i think the riots happened is because Mark was shot.
i don't understand why though because they are distroying their own future and their own community and when they have no where to go or no where to feel safe or call home then they will regret it.

poor parenting

why dont you ask the rioters why, instead of askng those who were not involved!
who cares what others think!

jamal waitakarie

When are all the commentators going to stop making excuses for the rioters by blaming the community, the police, the parents, the government and so on. It is the rioters THEMSELVES who are to blame. It is called SOCIAL RESPONSIBILITY and it is about time they realised that.
I would like to have more things in my life, but to do so I must make my own personal effort to get them. NOBODY has a RIGHT to anything, you EARN it!

When you forget a person they move on and find a way to survive without you. when you abandon a whole community, they create their own community and sooner or later. . . they will rise to defend their "nation." What we are experiencing is the decay of society, things only decay when they are no longer being used correctly. We are not using our youth correctly in the way that will empower them to succeed and grow. instead we judge and discriminate them. if we were not made to develop into greater things then why were we made. Let our youth be named Great not a nationwide embarresement. There is an enormous cry for help, why has it reached a stage that our youth no longer care for being part of this beautiful country. . . maybe we havnt allowed them, i am a youth who is going to uni yet i feel no sense of belonging, like it is me against them. i feel condemned by sight but is that really freedom?

I'm a secondary teacher in a fairrly deprived small town area - not an innacity - and when I saw the tv scenes I was not shocked - there is no sense of morality or responsibilty with a lot of our youth. The discipline in schools is very limited - the kids know you can't touch them and the general theme is "make me" even for a minor rule break like using a mobile phone in lesson. We feel helpless. Parents should take more responsibility in the home to teach children respect and worth. I was born on a rough council estate in a single parent home and I know that is not an excuse for benefits and no hope. Get off your back sides and you can do it!

I think Hannah has a point - young people feel frustrated and without much reason to feel hope. And why should they respect us "adults"? The MPs fiddled their expenses,the politicians broke their fundamental election promises to the young, the banks totally messed up the economy, miss sold and ripped us off, and are taking all our money whilst making sure they all have nice cars and second homes, students will be asked to pay back £80000 for a degree at a university that has been cut to pieces, there are no jobs, the police use undue force and hurt people, the press hack people's private phone conversations and lie about everything...... if we want the young to behave with respect we actually have to earn their respect.

the riots were an unconscious expression of dissent about the failures of society.
Society has become dysfunctional. The wealthy and powerful maintain the status quo, because it is in their interest. That means that for the majority of society, doors to any kind of opportunity are closed.
No one is in a position of changing this situation. Everyone (polititians, middle classes, corporations) is too worried about their own status to be rocking the boat.
The children are our only hope of ever changing anything, as they act instinctively, without worrying about consequences.
You could say, the riots were an attempt of society to save itself from slow degeneration.

I think parents with difficult children need more expert help rather then cash as these children tend to grow into difficult problem adults or become bad parents themselves. We live in a busy anti social society were everyones out for themselves (well not everyone).The government does not support communities and the decent values, reducing or stopping funding for many community projects. and the law does not equally protect victims. something is seriously wrong with modern society and its fast pace but saying that we have also never had it so easy only the unintelligent do not realise it cos they didn't see hunger, terrible poverty or war or their door step. like the 2nd world war when life was under constant threat.

Poor parenting and stupidity! Those people were not rioting because of the fund cuts or because of 'lack of opportunity', I bet 90% of them won't even make it to college. They all deserve the punishment the get. Even if it is because of the lack of discipline, they should have the common sense themselves not to cause such mayhem.

I don't like hearing people trying to justify them. I think most students disagree with the fund cuts, but they don't go smashing up their own city.

Also most of the people who took part didn't even know the person who got shot. They just saw it as an opportunity to get some free stuff.

Finally, I don't see how the killing of Mark Duggan would enrage them so much. The people they interviewed who knew him said he wouldn't shoot at a policeman, but none of them denied he would carry a gun. So he would if been put in prison anyway, its not like he was innocent.

Would be great to see all those rioters put in prison for life, they don't deserve to even live on our streets.

The riots I feel were a clear sign of the times.You only have to watch TV for an hour each evening to see adverts selling £30,000 motors and expensive items that most of these people and their families can never afford.With no future investment in youth and the greedy fat cat bankers blatantly ripping off the public what can we expect? The so called leaders of this country havnt got a clue what its like to live in poverty.They pretend to care but all they are really interested in is lining their own pockets and securing their own future.I only hope that the young people of this country can focus all their energy on changing the system.Not through violence and theft but through a strong sense of fairness and awareness.We are all in this together.

The riots have been brewing for years thanks to the PC brigade, who have turned Britain into a soft, nambee-pambee society, where kids are allowed to do as they please without repercussion and are beyond reproach. Where parents are too scared to chastise their children in case they themselves become targets of the PC brigade and as in many sad cases the parent or parents themselves are no more that kids. Everyone seems to deplore the bad old Dickensian ways of the workhouse, orphanages and debtors prisons, but were they really so bad for decent law abiding, hard working people? No, they only dealt with the problem element of society, so were they really so bad??????

I think the riots are a result of decades of a culture of something for nothing. What I mean by that is, the social system which give money not where it is needed, but to all wether you need it or not. That coupled with the fact that those who we are meant to look to for a moral compass have fallen far short of the mark.
We had ministers looting the public purse and getting away with it on a technicality and banker making mistakes that cost the country it's life saving and then being bailed out by the ordinary man on the street. The changes we need must come from the top down as well as the bottom up. If we all work together a change will come sooner than later.

It reinforced what I already believed.

There is little manual work any more. The miners were proud, strong hard working, hard playing, - rugby and music. The communities were behind them. Pit closures left vast estates of families with no work. Life on benefits became 'respectable' since the pits were isolated and there was no other work. Then the benefit culture spread like a disease - across the country and down to the children. The children grew and settled in these estates and in turn bred families on benefits. There is very little 'manly' work to be had any more - if you are not academic how and where can you shine ? Note how firemen and footballers are idolised - for their physical strength, or/and courage. Now young people have few aims. They want to be celebrities - for the adulation and money, because how else do they earn it? Girls have children - this way they are at least important to their offspring, whereas traditionally they were behind their man....(who wants to be behind a disaffected unemployed layabout?) The drugs, the drinking are symptoms of an unfulfilled life. What hope is there when they are constantly bombarded with media talk of university education for all, but ne'er an accolade to apprenticeships?

This makes me feel not surprised and not surprised. It reinforced what I already believed.

Im not surprised the riots happened. The authorities and laws are a disgrace in this country. Im a prime example as a parent. I gave birth to my children and I love them more than anything in the world. All I wanted was to discipline them to respect me,teachers, authority,laws and fit into society. When my daughter came home late on several occassions from school. On one occassion it was 10pm,that is late for a 12 year old girl, I hit her and warned her not to ever come home late from school. Two days later I had 2 police officers and a social worker visit me at my work place, a school, how humuilating it was,after that I basically could not say or do anything to her. From the age of 12 to 15 she became a runaway, on the streets mixing with gangs but yet I could not do anything because the social workers were on my case. I did not want to lose my job because I have mortgage. Instead I suffered with worry, tiredness, fear and exhaustion. As a result my ended up pregnant at the age of 15.Well thanks to the authorities who took my parenting skills away from me and thousands of other families and created this freedom for the children, teenagers and youths of today to go and loot. What I dont understand is when people were saying where are their parents. I am here but cannot say or do anything. I am for the curfews 100%.Why would I want to see my daughter on the streets after 9pm.

I think that the riots were a reaction to the sad and very limited inclusion of peoples real needs in our failing society today.
I asked myself 'what have young people to lose by expressing their anger and frustration at their lack of a real future, let alone a real job?'
I dont condone the riots but the reaction of politicians who cry for 'more police on the streets', is hardly new, they have been saying that for years.
Our society is failing real needs. Kids are fed a diet of consumerism and when it is constantly pushed in their faces and they do not have the means to obtain these things, there comes a point when anger and frustration boil over, as they did recently - and they take them.
Imagination and vision seems something that has been forgotten or relegated to the damp underground of lost possibilities, yet that in my opinion is what is sorely needed to put hope back on the agenda.
Perhaps we must bite the worn out bullet and relegate our disastrous love affair with a money making ethos to the past, in order to try to regain some insight as to what as human beings are our real needs may be?
Not an easy or comfortable agenda, but it may offer a path out of this awful irresponsible one way ticket to Palookaville.

The riots, unemployment, raising the retirement age, cuts to social services, cuts to emergency services and armed forces..... and so the list goes on; all result from there being more people in this country than it can afford to support and this has happened because a succession of governments of all political persuasions have failed to properly control immigration.
This has absolutely nothing to do with race, discrimination, multiculturalism or human rights because every UK citizen is in the same boat regardless of their origin. It is true though, that every new culture we adopt adds yet another price tag to our shopping list. The country is unable to support everyone in the traditional British way of life and that is why everyone is feeling the pinch.
Stealing and rioting will not provide any answers.
This country has to slam the doors shut now or the situation will only get worse. Entry to this country must be based solely on OUR need, not theirs. The riots are a wake up call which the politicians need to take notice of and act upon. I fear it may be too late already.
The riots present a good opportunity to start reducing the numbers - if a convicted rioter is an immigrant then cancel their visa and send them back to where they came from. We don't need their trash we have enough of our own!

The riots were caused by the police shooting a criminal who was in possession of an illegal firearm. This caused the local working class to protest on the misconceived basis that the police should not shoot criminals who possess illegal firmarms. The protest turned hostile, protesters started smashing windows and causing destruction and people starting looting. Why did they start looting? Because the police apparently did not prevent the looting; probably because there were insufficient numbers on the streets. Why did more people start looting? Because they believed they could get away with it. This pattern repeated itself around the country. It is difficult to identify any similarities between the looters. Apart from the fact that they all believed they would not get caught and were taking advantage of an opportunity to steal with impunity, they all probably have mundane little lives, which meant that they were more willing to take the risk of being caught. There is no similarity with other countries undergoing political revolutions; this country is already a democracy. We should not be wasting our time debating such an obvious point. We live in a world of lazy people who are always looking for the easy option; why should I work if it is going to be handed out to me and I can 'top up' my standard of living by stealing? This applies to people with no jobs as much as those with mundane jobs.

The real is issue is that no-one in government from the bottom to the top represents the social classes that rebelled, so long as politicians are squeeky clean, there will be a divide, parliment needs to allow people who have been on the wrong side of the law to legislate and implement, otherwise all government will always be "them" and will never be respected by "us".

signed: A. reformed-villian

I don't understand the speaker's point of view at all.

For real?what is this thing about not getting job? there is work out there... but folk don't want to clean toilets and pick up rubbish on the floor. no justification for the riots. As far as I can remember it all started because of an armed man was killed by the pollice???? so???? what does the lifestyle. benefots, employement have got to do with it? get a grip! get a job or find another easy money for free country to live! yeah in nowhereland.................

It reinforced what i already believed but althought the goverment dont want to except any blame i do think they have a lot to answer to how come they can become so tough on the rioters but so soft on the bankers and the peadophiles why dont mr cameron show his strenght at all time and not on the chosen few or is property and money more valuable.

I think Nathan has hit the nail on the head when he says there is a lack of moral compass in todays youth. I manage a young persons hostel in Croydon and i also manage a treatment centre for substance misuse and my general feeling is that we do have a sense of detachment in todays youth, especially the inner city youths, everywhere they look they are being cast aside, homes are not secure, single parents are becoming a norm, mental health issues that have been missed in the parents and sometimes the children, most suffer EBD and other issues and when they are faced with peer pressure to join gangs or local groups where can they turn for support?

I do some considerable work with students and over the last ten years have noticed a change in this generation of young adults. They have been encouraged to expect so much from life and not always how to achieve it which leads to frustration. They are much more confident than previous generations, which in most cases is an advantage but in a minority of young people they seem to have plenty of confidence without the ability to match which causes many problems. Many young people blame their circumstances on anything but themselves. My sister is a teaching assistant in Scotland and an 11 year old child beat a teacher so hard she ended up in hospital. None of the staff could stop it because it was against rules to touch the children. This is just an example of the lack of control parents and teachers have had over children for at least the past ten years. Parents, teachers and those in authority are unable to reprimand children and they therefore grow up with no sense of healthy respect for anyone in authority. In 2010 in the USA some college students who failed the course have actually sued the college for failing to teach them satisfactorily and some UK students have attempted the same. Young people should not be intimidated or frightened by authority but they do need to be educated to have a healthy respect for it.

Another possible contributing factor is that young people have never been so close to celebrities and more advantaged people partly due to social networking sites such as Twitter. They are more aware of their lifestyles and shopping habits and possible feel that they deserve the same luxury / branded things.

I think that young people need to learn some good old fashioned values: a healthy respect for elders, authority, their community, money and education. Marketing from the superbrands has brainwashed this generation and they need to be encouraged to appreciate and value things like handcrafted, individual items, personal style etc... They need to be educated to believe that individuality and personal style is much more cool than the superbrands. Perhaps some high profile / celebrity youths can lead by example to encourage this.

Something a respected schoolteacher told our class decades ago still sticks in my mind. When people get into a group they become susceptible to a temporary group culture. They may then do things they would never do acting alone. It happens to people in so-called high places, urged on by a powerful CEO, and it happens to members of a street gang, and just about any group in between. He warned us that if ever we found ourselves in such a situation, to pause and reflect " would I do this if it was not for this group I am in? I believe it to be one of the more important lessons learned in my school days.

The rioting was an outburst of opportunism, a flaring of envious rage from young and juvenile people who cannot appreciate the relative comforts that modern living provides for all (compared to other times and places), who are self-absorbed like their parents, and who had too little from their parents and schooling to derive any joy in satisfying aspects of their individuality beyond purchasing branded adornments and masturbatory electronic gadgetry. The great void where empathy should be is due to starved and thwarted imagination, an institutionel underexpectation that individuals have of themselves while entertaining the greatest expectations of what life will bestow, fanned by Hollywood fantasy and X-Factor self-adulation. Our tottering economy shoves more and more people into jobs of bureaucratic idiocy, requiring only the ability to follow the commands of a computer. Let there be a demand for ART, for avenues of greater range and depth of expression, greater articulacy and greater FEELING so that we are better equipped, individually, to deal with the plight that is living life!

It reinforced what I already believed.

The reason why the riots happened and why there is no respect amongst the youth in the 21st century arose from the attitude to children over the period of the last 30-40 years!!! Why?
Firstly, we took away the power from teachers and schools generally - schools have no authority in eyes of youth. So children go to school thinking that they can do whatever they want and behave the way they feel like, because they are no going to get panished for anything.
To make it worse, now parents have no power either, they can barely tell the kids off, any panishment for a bad behaviour would be reported as a child abuse!
Consequently, we now have the youth that without any life experience and wisdom are law for themselves. They know best, no-one is to teach them or give an advice.
There should be something or someone that children respect. In old times our parents used to be strickt with us, we were afraid of our teachers too. So we used to try to be at our best.
It is disappointing to see young people on the trains and buses with the legs up on the seats, playing loud music, talking on the phones so loud showing no respect to people around. There is no sign of hesitation at all! Where has it gone to? We destroyed it by giving to a child to much freedom of actions, to a child who has no wisdom yet, who knows little about the world, who does not yet realise its responsibilities.
We have to teach them everything, including tough life lessons, before letting them off the nest, so that they know how to manage themselves when in a difficult situation in the future.
It has nothing to do with economics, spending cuts, job losses or poverty!
There were so many employed youths amongst looter, children from the wealthy families.
Then again, if somebody complains that they have not got enough benefits, no matter how much you give and them provide for them, it will never be enough! People of healthy up-bringing will always do their best to earn their bread, never rely on others.
So lets think of the way we bring our kids up, lets start teaching them and be stricker from the day one!
There was a story that goes: "One couple brought their 6-month-old baby to an old wise respectful person asking him for an advice - "From what age shall we start teaching our child a good behaviour and positive attitude, father?" The old wise man answered "You are 6 month late..."

It reinforced what I already believed.

Nathan was absoulutley right young people in general lack moral leadership. From the top downwards. The govenment has to accept their blame also: over the past decades governments of all shades, have rewarded evil and pumished good! Homosexuality which is condemned in the Bible is being justified Christian owners of B&B'S HAVE BEEN PROSEQUTED FOR NOT ALLOWING GAY' S TO SHARE A DOUBLE ROOM. ThE LORD'S day has been turnrd into a shopping spree,at the same time Sunday School attendence is at an all time low, Sunday schools is the place where children learn right from wrong.
Our SCHOOLS have not helped instead of teaching sripture they in the main part of taught "evolution" teaching we all came from Monkeys what wonder if some of our children behave like animmals!
Thomas Jefferson one time president of the United States said of the Bible "I have always said and will say that the reading of the Bible will make better citizens ,better husbands and better fathers " Words to think about when our citizens are rioting and looting and divorce and family breakdown is rife.
To rectify these matters not only should severe punishment be the answer; but also a return to the truths contained in the Word Of God(The Bible) which as a nation we have downgraded and rejected for too long

I agree. This follows the premis of the African proverb:- 'left uninitiated the youth will burn down the village' The failure of our society is hinged on its denial of the crisis of puberty. Whith no true rites of passage into adulthood to affirm their new position among adults, the youths act as rejected souls to form their own gangs - poised against those who appear to have ignored them. Education as it stands does not negotiate the issue. A society focused entirely on profiteering can not - it engenders greed, vanity and fragmentation. At least when one becomes dangerous one is no longer invisible.

The Murdoch press have waged a steady war on young people with its portrayal of them as less than human using terms such as feral, scum etc to describe our children.

Even when crime has fallen they have stoked disproportionate fears by highlighting and distorting the bad while purposely ignoring the overwhelming good - all for profit and nothing else.

Unfortunately, many of us adults have echoed the Murdoch press' views as if they were our own experiences telling our children that there are a significant number of children out there that not only want to hurt, but if possible kill them. This fear has driven many young people to the point of depression and paranoia. Those fearful of attack join gangs for protection and seek to attack first as they are sure that others will attack them without hesitation so better get in first.

I am weary of the black community beating itself up about parenting, most of the most dedicated enthusiastic and involved fathers I have met are black, and there are are a lot of them. What we need to do is start supporting kids instead of bad-mouthing them, their friends and their kind or they will eventually stop trying to win our respect as we for so long have done very little to win theirs.

This is by no means the only reason for the riots, however, I believe it to be a significant factor. As Hugh Grant said "Mr Murdoch, what have you done to my country."

It reinforced what I already believed.

I wholly agree that the Yobs, Looters murderers are fully aware that what they are doing is wrong and this must be put right if possible by appropriate punishment but better still by PREVENTION by the presence of an adequate number of police on our streets deterring wrongdoers and reassuring residents and owners of shops and commercial premises.